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Prediction when BEV will impact fuel, and more importantly statistics.

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Prediction when BEV will impact fuel, and more importantly statistics.

Of course the more BEV the less gasoline and diesel is consumed, and it will still be a few years before the oil companies will start seeing the inevitable decline.
Europe and China will likely see it in 2023 at rate of adoption.
North America will be years longer given the ICE mass, 2026?

What I think will be the real paradigm shift is when fuel will no longer be a major factor in the economy.
Fuel is the, well, fuel, of any economy, and increase in fuel cost will also increase inflation.

When will fuel loose its importance in gross economic calculations (inflation is often reported with and without fuel costs). I expect this would probably happen after 2 years of Utility truck BEV production, as they are the goods movers, the service trucks, and what companies usually buy fleets of.
Amazon has pledged to go BEV trucks (made by Rivian), and Ford plans to make the Ford Transit van (which may be used by USPS), but I expect it will take years before significant numbers are on the roads, probably at best 2028.
Yes, there are a few BEV trucks going into production, seems like 2023 is year of the BET, but I wonder how many of those will be actual work trucks instead of joy ride toys?

Still, it is a good bet that in this decade the impact of BEV to inflation will be felt.

And then how will those economists measure that economic impact? How will they identify how much electricity is used for mobility vs running the jacuzzi?

I wonder how many have realize the usage data Tesla on their cars is worth millions? Does Tesla even provide that data to others?
 
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Renewables already are impacting fossil fuel prices and have been doing so for several years.

You are from Houston.

Look up average dino-juice reservoir decline curves.

Look up renewables growth curves.

Look up reserves replacement ratios.

Look up dino-juice prices.

Do the maths.

This started being material almost 10-years ago.
 
Renewables already are impacting fossil fuel prices and have been doing so for several years.

You are from Houston.

Look up average dino-juice reservoir decline curves.

Look up renewables growth curves.

Look up reserves replacement ratios.

Look up dino-juice prices.

Do the maths.

This started being material almost 10-years ago.
It is small impact now.
I am talking when refineries and gas stations start to close.
 
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Big oil isn't worried


Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) has projected that EVs will account for ~8% of the global fleet by 2030 and reach 31% of the global fleet by 2040. The new energy research provider also says that it will take at least two decades for EV sales to hit 60% of all new vehicle sales.
A report from IHS Markit shows that in 2020, light plug-in and fuel-cell vehicles, as well as electric city buses and two-wheelers, collectively displaced about 370,000 barrels per day of global oil consumption, a figure that is projected to grow to 1.5 million barrels per day by 2025, equal to about 1.4% of the projected level of total world oil demand.
That said, the EV sector could end up hurting the oil sector in the long run, with BNEF predicting that electric and fuel cell vehicles will displace 21 million barrels per day in oil demand by 2050.

In other words, it's probably going to be decades before the impact of the EV revolution begins to be truly felt by the fossil fuel sector.
 
Big oil isn't worried


Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) has projected that EVs will account for ~8% of the global fleet by 2030 and reach 31% of the global fleet by 2040. The new energy research provider also says that it will take at least two decades for EV sales to hit 60% of all new vehicle sales.
A report from IHS Markit shows that in 2020, light plug-in and fuel-cell vehicles, as well as electric city buses and two-wheelers, collectively displaced about 370,000 barrels per day of global oil consumption, a figure that is projected to grow to 1.5 million barrels per day by 2025, equal to about 1.4% of the projected level of total world oil demand.
That said, the EV sector could end up hurting the oil sector in the long run, with BNEF predicting that electric and fuel cell vehicles will displace 21 million barrels per day in oil demand by 2050.

In other words, it's probably going to be decades before the impact of the EV revolution begins to be truly felt by the fossil fuel sector.
Big Oil is wrong. Even serviceable ICE will be replaced by BEV due to economics, inability to drive in low emission zones. It will happen fast. Even in poor countries, pollution is so bad (partly due to sub-standard fuels) that switching to EVs will happen.
 
Bloomberg New Energy Finance (BNEF) has projected that EVs will account for ~8% of the global fleet by 2030 and reach 31% of the global fleet by 2040.
I have a sneaking suspicion that estimate is quite low, based on current BEV production ability.
A lot of investor Bears keep low balling BEV production, yet Tesla is crushing those numbers, and with 2 new factories, basically 2x production capacity, is making fools of investors and established car companies. Only constraint is battery mfg.

My guess: ~20% by 2030.
 
I have a sneaking suspicion that estimate is quite low, based on current BEV production ability.
A lot of investor Bears keep low balling BEV production, yet Tesla is crushing those numbers, and with 2 new factories, basically 2x production capacity, is making fools of investors and established car companies. Only constraint is battery mfg.

My guess: ~20% by 2030.

Related to battery manufacturing is battery cost, and until someone can crank out thousands of BEV for <$25k MSRP, no way global fleet gets to 20%. (The top selling cars by volume are about $20k.)
 
Related to battery manufacturing is battery cost, and until someone can crank out thousands of BEV for <$25k MSRP, no way global fleet gets to 20%. (The top selling cars by volume are about $20k.)
Total Cost of Ownership, purchase, maintenance and fuel all added together - for BEV can be lower than ICE even if purchase price is higher.

In many places, fuel infrastructure is a nightmare (floods wipe out bridges - not fixed for years, hard to truck in fuel). BEVs better at high altitude. Intermittent electricity is still fine for BEV, solar abundant in many places. Some places have cultures of shared/kiosk phone charging/phone loading (minutes/data), so can be extended to car charging easily. Most car sales are to richer countries, these then get sold secondhand to other countries. As BEV gets to higher % in primary markets, secondary markets also benefit a few years later. BEVs are more reliable, so last longer therefore increasing % of total fleet faster than ICE equivalents.
 
Related to battery manufacturing is battery cost, and until someone can crank out thousands of BEV for <$25k MSRP, no way global fleet gets to 20%. (The top selling cars by volume are about $20k.)
China is doing this today. They are about to take over the world EV (and entire auto) market.

 
China is doing this today.

Hmmm.

From the Forbes article:
- BYD $71k
- Han $40k
- MG5 $34k
- E-Motion $41k
- Wuling $4,200 (winner, winner chicken dinner; ooops, no plans to sell outside of China -- as it would never meet US safety standards)
- G3 $42,500
- P7 $35.5k
- Aiways $28k (close....)

From The Driven article:
- Cat $33.8k


Now help me understand which Chinese models meet my claim of a $25k (USD) price point?
 
Related to battery manufacturing is battery cost, and until someone can crank out thousands of BEV for <$25k MSRP, no way global fleet gets to 20%. (The top selling cars by volume are about $20k.)
That is an absolute certainty, and <$15 is very possible (in todays $).

Right now, even at $50K, there is months of backlog for BEV's. Only when supply will match demand will attention be made to lower price, maybe 4 years?

There are the super cheap BEV's like the Wuling Mini EV micro car, but will not pass US safety standards, and at top speed (with tail wind) of 62mph would be run over on by semi-trucks on US high ways, and less than 100mi range (practically). I do think it would be great in some east coast mega cities like NY and Boston, IF given some special permit.

OH, and China would rather keep all its BEV's, they have 4x the population of US.
 
Hmmm.

From the Forbes article:
- BYD $71k
- Han $40k
- MG5 $34k
- E-Motion $41k
- Wuling $4,200 (winner, winner chicken dinner; ooops, no plans to sell outside of China -- as it would never meet US safety standards)
- G3 $42,500
- P7 $35.5k
- Aiways $28k (close....)

From The Driven article:
- Cat $33.8k


Now help me understand which Chinese models meet my claim of a $25k (USD) price point?
First, I think your $25k price point is too low. Average car price is $47k and even the best selling Toyota Camry is $30-$35k.
Second, here are seven Chinese EVs that meet your price objective:
(Google is your friend)
 
First, I think your $25k price point is too low. Average car price is $47k and even the best selling Toyota Camry is $30-$35k.
I think this is very doable and comply with all safety requirements.
Naturally it will be very spartan, 2 door, tiny panel, fixed mirrors, basic lights, 100 mile range, if that. No frunk.
Heck, manual locks and windows!

It will have top speed of around 75mph and 0 to 60 around 7 seconds.


When that happens is when the fuel companies are massively downsizing.
 
I think this is very doable and comply with all safety requirements.
Naturally it will be very spartan, 2 door, tiny panel, fixed mirrors, basic lights, 100 mile range, if that. No frunk.
Heck, manual locks and windows!

It will have top speed of around 75mph and 0 to 60 around 7 seconds.


When that happens is when the fuel companies are massively downsizing.
Those specs could be produced by the Chinese for <$10k
 
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First, I think your $25k price point is too low. Average car price is $47k and even the best selling Toyota Camry is $30-$35k.
Second, here are seven Chinese EVs that meet your price objective:
(Google is your friend)

I don't think it's low. That $47k is distorted by higher-priced segments and premium vehicles.


From February 2020, pre COVID.

If you look at those numbers, you can see that the higher values are for manufacturers that are selling larger vehicles or a high proportion of premium vehicles.

Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan, Subaru were all under $31k, and what is now the top-selling manufacturer, Toyota, was at $34k.

And that's the average prices, so obviously there are a lot of sales with lower prices than that.

Starting MSRP of the Toyota Prius is $24,625. If BEV can't match HEV, no chance of dominance in the USA.
 
I don't think it's low. That $47k is distorted by higher-priced segments and premium vehicles.


From February 2020, pre COVID.

If you look at those numbers, you can see that the higher values are for manufacturers that are selling larger vehicles or a high proportion of premium vehicles.

Honda, Hyundai/Kia, Nissan, Subaru were all under $31k, and what is now the top-selling manufacturer, Toyota, was at $34k.

And that's the average prices, so obviously there are a lot of sales with lower prices than that.

Starting MSRP of the Toyota Prius is $24,625. If BEV can't match HEV, no chance of dominance in the USA.
The question I think we are discussing is "Do we need a <$25k BEV to get above 20% sales?"
I would argue that several countries are already well above 20% sales at much higher prices.
Most people today already buy cars that cost more than $25k.
If you're not stupid, you also can figure out that you will save about $15k over five years with a BEV which dramatically lowers TCO.
I don't think purchase price is a factor impeding adoption. The main barrier to adoption is just finding a car for sale. All BEVs are backordered by months or years.
 
Somewhat off topic: (warning paywall)
Quote:
Startup electric vehicle brand Polestar today confirmed it will run an ad in the game that is already filled with spots from Kia, BMW, General Motors and Nissan—which are all pitching EVs with expensive celebrity-filled ads. There is even an electric vehicle charger maker in the game: Wallbox, whose Big Game ad doubles as its first-ever TV commercial in the U.S.

Never before have so many auto brands spent so much money advertising vehicles with such small market share—EVs only accounted for 2.6% of new vehicle sales last year in the U.S., according to Edmunds. But the Super Bowl marketing onslaught is indicative of a tipping point in the EV sector, which is poised to finally begin creeping into the mainstream after years of hype. Automakers have billions of dollars riding on it. GM alone has said it plans to pour $35 billion in electric and autonomous vehicle development through 2025, while debuting 30 new EVs globally, with two-thirds available in North America.

With that kind of investment, brands must start generating demand—lots of it. And there is no bigger stage to do that than the Super Bowl, which draws about 100 million American viewers from all corners of the country.
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