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Preheating battery in cold weather use.

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Battery temperature had most likely nothing to do with it. Worst case the battery would have been 50 degrees. That doesn't cause a Supercharger to slow down to less than 30 kW.

Yes, that’s what I told them on my first call. I thought maybe there was a difference between our S and our 3. The guy on the second call said I had to take it to a service center to have the high voltage battery checked.

Thanks.
 
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The car will heat the battery to prevent it from getting so cold that it is damaged. The exact level depends on if range mode is on or not and the State of charge of the battery.

Not if it is parked/off.

Here is a snippet from the manual on temperature:

Temperature Limits

For better long-term performance, avoid exposing Model 3 to ambient temperatures above 140° F (60° C) or below -22° F (-30° C) for more than 24 hours at a time.
 
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Not if it is parked/off.

Here is a snippet from the manual on temperature:
I love how the thing you quoted as your supposed "evidence" does not say the thing you have been saying. That just says not to do that. You are making the assumption that it is because the battery heater will not run. That warning could be because at those temperatures the cooling or heating system will be running constantly and will deplete the battery very fast.
 
I love how the thing you quoted as your supposed "evidence" does not say the thing you have been saying. That just says not to do that. You are making the assumption that it is because the battery heater will not run. That warning could be because at those temperatures the cooling or heating system will be running constantly and will deplete the battery very fast.

I wasn't saying that was evidence, but it is related.

It is possible that the Model 3 will heat/cool the battery while parked but the Mode S&X do not, so it is highly doubtful.
 
Someone told me you can set your charge to 80% then in the morning when you get up, bump it up to 90% and charging the extra 10% will warm the battery.

the battery heats when charging, so yes this is a way. Savvy Tesla owners in the past have set their charging times and timed it so the charging session would complete right as they would leave for their morning commute.
 
This discussion seems to highlight for me at least that maybe Tesla needs to put more thought into cold weather use. It would seem reasonable to allow the user access to battery preconditioning/heating separate from cabin heating. Is there a good reason why the user couldn't select an option in the app that would allow him/her to keep the battery at a set temp when the car is plugged-in? That way, anyone that wants full region to be available at the start of their commute, or if they see a benefit in protecting the battery from extreme temperatures could just turn it on. Anyone who doesn't want to pay for the extra power could just keep the feature turned off. Sounds like a software thing Tesla. Any thought?
 
the Mode S&X do not, so it is highly doubtful.
I am fairly certain that the Model S will heat the battery to keep it above a certain danger temperature, while unplugged and parked for 24 hours. I can't find a source for that though, so I could be wrong.

As for adding more settings to allow the user to control the behavior more closely, Tesla seems to prefer to assume they know best and not overwhelm the user with settings. There is some wisdom in this, as they do no better than most users and at some point there becomes an unmanageable amount of settings to deal with. It also makes servicing, debugging and diagnosis easier as there are less variations in the cars behavior. I would prefer to be able to control every little thing in the car exactly how I want it, but I will admit it is nice to just not worry about it too.
 
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Hey Jaguar36 thanks for your comment. I agree with you regarding comments on overdoing it with the amount or level of control, but don't think it really applies here. First of all like I said, if the user wanted to avoid the extra power costs or just didn't want to bother with it, he/she could just turn the feature off. For anyone that wants the benefit of preconditioning the battery (in extreme weather hot or cold), they could just turn the feature on and let the car worry about it. Not any different than setting your car to charge at a certain time each night, and then leting the car handle the rest. This might not be a big issue for those living in milder and more consistent climates, but for anyone living in the extreme swings of four-season weather, it might be more important, because I know in my case it is. Cheers.
 
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It would seem reasonable to allow the user access to battery preconditioning/heating separate from cabin heating. Is there a good reason why the user couldn't select an option in the app that would allow him/her to keep the battery at a set temp when the car is plugged-in? That way, anyone that wants full region to be available at the start of their commute, or if they see a benefit in protecting the battery from extreme temperatures could just turn it on.
I don't think I see any benefit to this, because it seems those needs are already covered:

(1) Why would you ever need it separate from cabin heating? You would want it warm for driving, right? Well, that would mean you want the inside of the car warm for you too, right? And that is now something where you can turn them both on from the app now if it is really cold. So you do already have control of that.
(2) "Benefit from protecting the battery from extreme temperatures"? I am over 90% sure that @MP3Mike is not correct in saying that battery heating will just never turn on no matter what when the car is parked and not plugged in. Tesla would have that covered. First off, lithium ion batteries can do fine sitting at really cold temperatures and even discharging at really cold temperatures. It's recharging them where that is not safe to do when cold. And if sitting at really REALLY cold temperatures were going to cause damage, Tesla would not let the batteries just destroy themselves while they had a pack full of energy that could keep it safe for several more hours. Look at how they force a shutdown if you run low on energy. They keep you from destroying them from running them to 0%. So they will have the safeguards to keep the batteries safe for as long as possible as needed.
(3) So there seem to be two types of cases you're talking about: Convenience to warm it up for driving (which you have in the app) or Desperation extreme cold to "save" the battery (which Tesla has covered so people don't have to worry about it)

So I still don't see a use case where they need to do anything different here.
 
@Rocky_H thanks for your reply. I think the answer to your question of a "use case" might be found in the explanation you give. If your car is plugged-in over night or during the day for hours and hours in really hot or cold climates, you might want just the thermal regulation for the battery to switch on, as opposed to having the cabin heating/cooling all day and all night. It would seem more efficient to me to have the cabin heated/cooled in time for your expected next use of the car, but then that is just me and I can't actually claim to have experience with this yet. Just as you are less than 100% sure, I can't comment on the veracity of claims made by the various members that have posted here, but there seems to be more then one person making the same claim, and others that have experienced slow battery heating performance even in moderate temperatures. What I can comment on though with some certainty is the fact that extreme temperatures do have a negative impact on battery life. I point you to the well documented case of the early Nissan leaf and the problems faced there with high temperatures. The main reason I suspect that they will be following Tesla's lead in implementing thermal regulation for their battery pack. That documented problem also seems to jive with a quote posted in this thread, which was taken from a Tesla operators manual. Avoid prolonged periods in extreme temperatures. The point I was making was not necessarily meant to argue for another button, or more control. The point I was getting at is that maybe Tesla should look more aggressively at the thermal regulation of their battery packs. It doesn't have to be another button, or more control. Tesla could just have the system keep a set temp when plugged in, which doesn't currently seem to be the case from what others are reporting. If I go by the real-world experience of what others have posted here and in other threads, it appears that more could be done in this area, especially for those living in colder regions. Parking your car in a garage heated to -6C is one thing, having to park in -25C is another.
 
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What I can comment on though with some certainty is the fact that extreme temperatures do have a negative impact on battery life. I point you to the well documented case of the early Nissan leaf and the problems faced there with high temperatures. The main reason I suspect that they will be following Tesla's lead in implementing thermal regulation for their battery pack. That documented problem also seems to jive with a quote posted in this thread, which was taken from a Tesla operators manual. Avoid prolonged periods in extreme temperatures. The point I was making was not necessarily meant to argue for another button, or more control. The point I was getting at is that maybe Tesla should look more aggressively at the thermal regulation of their battery packs.
:mad: It is somewhat disturbing that you want to compare the Nissan Leaf's problems, where they have NO battery temperature regulation of any kind and therefore get insanely hot, to the Tesla battery pack, which actively heats and cools it to do extensive thermal regulation.
 
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@Rocky_H, my apologies if you mistook my comment as a comparison between Tesla's battery pack and Nissan's, because it wasn't. I was just referring to something that I can positively comment on with certainty, that being the effect extreme temperature has on battery life if kept unchecked. So I hope this makes it more clearer for you, as I think we are on the same page here. Having a large portion of Tesla's client base in warmer climates, I am guessing that there has been a lot of attention given to keeping the battery cool. And it would be my guess as well that the battery's cooling system is switched on a lot more then its heating system would be, even if you live in a colder region. I know that Tesla has also done a lot of work demonstrating that their cars work well in cooler climates, I have seen the youtube videos, but there seems to be a lot of people reporting long battery rewarm times with loss of functionality/performance when first starting out on their drive in colder climates. Image that you work in a field where you are on-call. The planned start of your day my be 08:00, so you might want to time the charging of your battery so that it finishes just at your expected departure time. But what if you get a callback before the charge session has started? Yes the cabin will be cold, thats a given, but it would be nice IMO if the car was ready to go with full functionality/performance when the driver is. This doesn't have to be another button with more control, it could be just something the car does automatically when plugged-in. If the car keeps the battery cool in warm temps when plugged-in, makes sense to me that it would keep it warm as well. Cheers
 
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but there seems to be a lot of people reporting long battery rewarm times with loss of functionality/performance when first starting out on their drive in colder climates. Image that you work in a field where you are on-call. The planned start of your day my be 08:00, so you might want to time the charging of your battery so that it finishes just at your expected departure time. But what if you get a callback before the charge session has started? Yes the cabin will be cold, thats a given, but it would be nice IMO if the car was ready to go with full functionality/performance when the driver is.
I am marking in bold what seems to me this really weird perception you have that I strongly disagree with. You are talking about this as if people are throwing up their hands in desperation and calling a cab as if their cars can't be driven! It's fine--just drive it. Yeah, regen is kind of limited a bit every winter; that's life. It's not the big deal you're making it out to be. That by far seems the better choice than wasting tons of energy running the battery heater all the time. I live where it gets well below freezing but usually above 0. I don't bother to time charging or prewarm the battery. I just drive it every day for four years, and it's fine.

Your setup about being "on-call", and being caught out in some kind of emergency situation where you are absolutely screwed because your battery wasn't prewarmed is just nonsense and is unnecessary worry.
 
:mad: It is somewhat disturbing that you want to compare the Nissan Leaf's problems, where they have NO battery temperature regulation of any kind and therefore get insanely hot, to the Tesla battery pack, which actively heats and cools it to do extensive thermal regulation.

It is not a perception, unless you normally show your "MAD teeth" when responding to comments on a public forum! I never said you disagree with me, but was just pointing out that you seem to have misunderstood my previouis post. And I never set anything up, I was just offering you a "use case", as you seemed to be stumped finding one. I could easily offer you several more, but don't think it would be helpful at this point. Regarding nonsense and unnecessary worry, I stated up front that I don't have experience as I am still waiting to receive my car. This may be a non-issue for us, but we are not sure, so hère we are, a Tesla users forum! When we reserved our cars back in 2016, we had no way of knowing any détails of the mechanical design of the car, and only discovered the realities of the Model 3's battery heating capabilities recently. In my case, the car will be parked outside overnight in winter where temps can drop bellow -25C. I started this thread for practical reasons, I wanted to know how thèse cars hold up in cold weather conditions. I have read posts from a number of members hère that suggest battery heating is a little week. The practical reason is I have a second car to configure, and will need to know before doing so.
 
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Not sure this is relevant but yesterday mornin the outside temp was 59 degrees and had been about 50 overnight. In the morning we drove about a mile to the supercharger. At 52% charge level we started to charge at 32 kW and very quickly dropped to 28 kW. Long story about moving to different stalls, rebooting, calling Tesla, etc but the charge level did not change until about 80% level. Then the charge level dropped to 26 kW.

Later that same day, after driving about 150 miles and charging at a destination charger we returned to the same supercharger. The charge level was normal at about 100 kW.

We had charged normally at this same supercharger two days earlier.
One thing you don't mention is your SoC the second time you charged at that SC. There is a charge rate curve that varies depending on the SoC of the battery. So if your SoC was only 15% when you returned you would see a faster charge rate. Once you hit 80% it slows down quite a bit. So on a road trip you're usually better off running the battery down and charging just what you need to get to the next SC rather than charging to 90% to reduce stops. For example, if you have the option of charging to 60% and stopping at the next SC or charging to 90% and stopping at a second SC that's 100 miles further away, you're better off doing the lower charge and stopping again at the second one for another quick charge.
 
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...So on a road trip you're usually better off running the battery down and charging just what you need to get to the next SC rather than charging to 90% to reduce stops. For example, if you have the option of charging to 60% and stopping at the next SC or charging to 90% and stopping at a second SC that's 100 miles further away, you're better off doing the lower charge and stopping again at the second one for another quick charge.

Maybe a little off topic, but is the in-car software able to show whether the next supercharger on your route is busy or not, and can it be used like a GPS where the user presets the software to generate best possible route (or in this case, best charge point options) based on time or distance? I have been following Tesla's supercharger network rollout with a lot of interest, and it appears that on some routes, the distance between superchargers is getting to the point where it should be feasible to make repeated short 10 to 15 charge sessions to skip across long distances. Very impressed with the planned rollout for 2018, where Tesla's SC network will connect the East and West coasts of Canada. Thank you Tesla!
 
The in car nav will tell you how many free stalls (although its accuracy is not great) are at each nearby supercharger. It will route you to the superchargers and generate what it feels is the best possible route.

Generally you don't want to stop at every supercharger, but rather stop when you are almost empty and refill to 80% or so. Supercharging speeds drop substantially above 80% and there is usually a few minutes of time lost getting from the highway to the charger. Also longer stops allow you to go get food, or go for a walk or something instead of just wait for the car.
 
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@jaguar36 thanks for your reply. Your suggestion is clear and understood. I downloaded a trip planning app called EVTO-Tesla that I have been simulating possible trips with, and got some interesting results. In a 680KM trip to New York, the app had me make 2 ten minute supercharger stops, getting me to New York in almost the same time it would take to make the trip in an ICE. The app was set for a LR Model 3 and accounts for elevation change, wind, temp... Although like most hère, I would prefer to combine the 2 stops for the 7 hour trip, I think it is great that the range of the Model 3 combined with the supercharger network has reached near parity with the ICE car over a 680KM trip. I am curions to know how the in-car software compares with this app.