Preheating battery in cold weather use.

[Kermee]

Why does there have to be a dedicated battery heater. The Model 3 can use the motor to heat the pack even when the vehicles is parked. And it can probably generate way more heat then the dedicated pack heater in the S&X.

I worded that sentence poorly. You're correct. The drivetrain probably does generate much more heat than a dedicated heater in the S/X.

What I meant really, was with finding anecdotal evidence where the Model 3 will pre-condition the battery using the motor, and showing the "battery heating" icon like it does on the Model S/X, but guess now that there are many more Model 3's out there especially up in Canada and New England, and with winter coming, we may actually get to see it and see how well it works.

 

[Rocky_H]

I worded that sentence poorly. You're correct. The drivetrain probably does generate much more heat than a dedicated heater in the S/X.

What I meant really, was with finding anecdotal evidence where the Model 3 will pre-condition the battery using the motor, and showing the "battery heating" icon like it does on the Model S/X, but guess now that there are many more Model 3's out there especially up in Canada and New England, and with winter coming, we may actually get to see it and see how well it works.

Yeah, it isn't just like "side effect" waste heat from the motor while driving. Tesla did describe how they can run current through the motor windings while the car is parked to act exactly as a resistive electric heater for the battery pack. It's a bit like saying someone doesn't have a rain coat, and they reply how sure, they don't have a slicker that is just a rain coat, but the regular jacket they wear often has a waterproof shell on the outside of it, so that is their rain coat that they will select when it's raining.

 

[David99]

When I measured my Model S it used a total of aprox 10 kW. That was cabin heating and battery heating combined. I believe the battery heater itself is 6 kW max.
Energy consumption for Preheating

Someone with a Model 3 has to do some test to see how much power it draws. My guess is it will be around the same. A significantly stronger heating power would make the coolant liquid much warmer which then causes a high temperature difference inside the battery. The cells at the beginning of the coolant loop would get much warmer than the ones at the end. To a degree this will of course always happen, but if the difference it too big it causes issues with charging and discharging unevenly and cells going out of balance too much.

 

[evJOULE]

Yeah. This is starting to look like if the Model 3s, half-ton of battery mass is soaked at around the low 50's (10C), it's very unhappy at taking higher Supercharger rates until it warms up considerably. And since there's no dedicated battery heater to pre-condition the battery for charging unlike the Model S/X, if you start charging at around 50%, by the time the battery probably gets warm enough due to charging, you're already at an SoC where charging rate rapidly tapers off anyway.

I think the recommendation at this point is in colder weather, do your charging after a long trip (while your batteries are still relatively "warm") before you turn in for the day vs. if you were planning to charge the next morning if you want to spend the least amount of time Supercharging.

EDIT: On the bright side, there should be an assumption that the talented Tesla engineers who developed the BMS would allow the "fastest" charging rate for the Model 3 if the battery was "cold soaked" to avoid degradation or damage to the batteries. I don't have the link I saw for the article handy, but the Munro & Associates teardown of the Model 3, which included the battery pack... They stated out of the entire Model 3 teardown they did, they were most impressed with the battery pack and the BMS that was "light years" ahead of the competition. That's at least reassuring to me as the weather gets colder and colder, and for some, to the extremes.

And this side certainly is bright. Model 3 is the only car I have ever owned where after nearly 4 month, I'm still finding amazing things about the car that make me love it even more then the day before. I would have never guessed that the car I enjoyed most is the one I bought sight unseen.

 

[evJOULE]

Why does there have to be a dedicated battery heater. The Model 3 can use the motor to heat the pack even when the vehicles is parked. And it can probably generate way more heat then the dedicated pack heater in the S&X.

When I measured my Model S it used a total of aprox 10 kW. That was cabin heating and battery heating combined. I believe the battery heater itself is 6 kW max.
Energy consumption for Preheating

Someone with a Model 3 has to do some test to see how much power it draws. My guess is it will be around the same. A significantly stronger heating power would make the coolant liquid much warmer which then causes a high temperature difference inside the battery. The cells at the beginning of the coolant loop would get much warmer than the ones at the end. To a degree this will of course always happen, but if the difference it too big it causes issues with charging and discharging unevenly and cells going out of balance too much.

I agree Mike and am glad this thread is finally coming full circle back to where it was intended to be. You may be right about the battery heating efficiency of the Model 3 and with the number of cars on the road this winter, this community should be able to answer that question and more in terms of Model 3 and cold weather use. So far with my Model 3 being plugged-in without pre-heating the cabin, dipping down to 0C has had no noticeable effect on regen capabilities.

I also agree David, Depending on how much heating power the new method can put out, it could potentially cause an imbalance if large temperature gradients could develop, but this could also be easily managed via software so that when the Model 3 starts to heat the battery, it applies the no torque power in a slow and controlled fashion to avoid any large T-delta. Again, we would really need access to the CAN bus to see it in action. I believe this is the most likely scenario in terms of how how it works as it is essentially what we are seeing at the supercharge.

 

[ThosEM]

Appropo of this, I'm noticing that my Model 3 battery is not warming up during my homeward daily commute after cold soaking all day, regen is limited and changing very slowly in 32 km / 40 minutes of driving. If I wanted regen, it might be worth some juice to restore it. Presumably the car is capable of applying heat to the battery but is programmed not to do so.

In contrast, our Model S uses 5 kW or so power to warm the battery when driving after a cold soak. Given that regen is somewhat optional, it might be worth saving that juice, but the car is programmed to dump it into the battery regardless. Range mode may reduce this.

Supercharging rate is also limited (to about half in the case where I noticed it) when the battery is cool. Tesla looked at my logs and confirmed that "the battery was calling for heat" at the time I was attempting to supercharge. I had been driving on and off all day, but it was cool out, and the battery apparently had not warmed up sufficiently.

So there's a tradeoff here that is treated quite differently in the Model 3, which lacks the resistance heater of the Model S, but can use energy through the motor to warm the battery (and presumably the cabin) to some degree at least. Perhaps a resistance heater is provided for the Model 3 cabin so that instant heat and plenty of it can be felt there?

It would be very smart of Tesla to provide a battery heating control, with "default" and "range" settings, as for regen and the climate system, so the owner can make this tradeoff choice between the Model S and Model 3 approaches. Or do I unwittingly have my Model 3 set to "Range" mode? Must check that...

Then there is matter of transparency. The Model S provides lots of quantitative feedback on the operation of heaters, via the energy gauge on the instrument panel. One can see the regen limit relax and disappear as the car is driven and the battery warms. Also, one can see that "creep" mode and AC draw small but appreciable amounts of energy when standing. On the Model 3, the energy gauge is ungraduated, possibly uncalibrated, and is more or less linear, such that small amounts of energy use do not even register visibly. I'd like to see the Model S approach to graduating and compressing the scale so that all levels of power can be monitored by the driver.

Meanwhile, it seems that I need to get accustomed to having variable amounts of regen, or equivalently varying speed range in which regen is effective. And it is not smart to supercharge in cool weather when driving in a manner that does not sufficiently warm the battery.

 

[evJOULE]

View attachment 356798 View attachment 356799

...So far with my Model 3 being plugged-in without pre-heating the cabin, dipping down to 0C has had no noticeable effect on regen capabilities.

Appropo of this, I'm noticing that my Model 3 battery is not warming up during my homeward daily commute after cold soaking all day, regen is limited and changing very slowly in 32 km / 40 minutes of driving. If I wanted regen, it might be worth some juice to restore it. Presumably the car is capable of applying heat to the battery but is programmed not to do so.

In contrast, our Model S uses 5 kW or so power to warm the battery when driving after a cold soak. Given that regen is somewhat optional, it might be worth saving that juice, but the car is programmed to dump it into the battery regardless. Range mode may reduce this.

Supercharging rate is also limited (to about half in the case where I noticed it) when the battery is cool. Tesla looked at my logs and confirmed that "the battery was calling for heat" at the time I was attempting to supercharge. I had been driving on and off all day, but it was cool out, and the battery apparently had not warmed up sufficiently.

So there's a tradeoff here that is treated quite differently in the Model 3, which lacks the resistance heater of the Model S, but can use energy through the motor to warm the battery (and presumably the cabin) to some degree at least. Perhaps a resistance heater is provided for the Model 3 cabin so that instant heat and plenty of it can be felt there?

It would be very smart of Tesla to provide a battery heating control, with "default" and "range" settings, as for regen and the climate system, so the owner can make this tradeoff choice between the Model S and Model 3 approaches. Or do I unwittingly have my Model 3 set to "Range" mode? Must check that...

Then there is matter of transparency. The Model S provides lots of quantitative feedback on the operation of heaters, via the energy gauge on the instrument panel. One can see the regen limit relax and disappear as the car is driven and the battery warms. Also, one can see that "creep" mode and AC draw small but appreciable amounts of energy when standing. On the Model 3, the energy gauge is ungraduated, possibly uncalibrated, and is more or less linear, such that small amounts of energy use do not even register visibly. I'd like to see the Model S approach to graduating and compressing the scale so that all levels of power can be monitored by the driver.

Meanwhile, it seems that I need to get accustomed to having variable amounts of regen, or equivalently varying speed range in which regen is effective. And it is not smart to supercharge in cool weather when driving in a manner that does not sufficiently warm the battery.

Like you, I would like to see improvements in the software that improves the level and type of information available as well as giving the user better control.

I realize after reading my previous post that it is misleading in terms of Model 3 regen capabilities, as it gives the impression that there is full regen down to 0C. What I meant to say is that above 0C weather there is little or no effect to my city driving habits in terms of regen and breaking. I would have to pay closer attention the next time it warms up again to see at what temp regen starts to limit, but I believe there is some limit to regen at +6C and possibly even higher. At around 0C and below though I am having to change the way I drive in terms of judging speed and breaking distance for city driving. At -6C, I am depending heavily on using the breaks to slow down. After being left unplugged for about 3 hours in -6C weather, a blue bar on the battery with a snowflake icon appeared, but disappeared after about 30 minutes of city driving. In -6C weather, city driving for more then 90 minutes was unable to unlock full regen. In -6C weather, highway driving for about 25 minutes was enough to unlock full regen. With the lowest ambient daytime temp reaching to -9C so far, I have yet to see an icon indicating that the battery is being warmed. When looking at the mobile app, it does appear that there is at least a space where a battery heating icon could appear, but have not seen this yet. The icons themselves are not in fix positions in the mobile app as shown in the attached images. Does the Model 3 have an icon to show when the battery is being heated? Turning cabin heating on at interior temps down to -9C do not appear to activate it if it does as seen in article linked below. Still looking for the elusive battery heating icon and under what condition it activates.

Tesla releases new Model 3 software update to address cold weather ...https://electrek.co/2018/11/22/tesla-model-3-software-update-cold-weather-issues/

 

[evJOULE]

I think I might have found some answers to questions about battery heating in the Model 3. Our setup: we have a Tesla wall connector installed in the garage dialled down to deliver 36amps, and an exterior 240V Flo charger for non-Tesla owning visitors set to deliver 30amps. In the first two attached images, I kept the doors open to completely cool the interior of the car down to ambient temp before I start charging at 3:36PM. We can see that the battery is cold and that there is a "Limited Charging" warning with only a 16 amp draw. The Model 3 seems to think that the charge cable might not be inserted properly, so I tried to reinsert several times without being able to remove the limited charging warning before starting. The charging light inside the charge port door is flashing yellow instead of green and I set climate control to HI using theTesla mobile APP. At this point, I am not sure that the car is actually doing anything in terms of charging or warming the battery. In the third image 6 minutes later, we see that the battery is still cold with the blue snow flake icon present, and the Model 3 still shows the same 'Limited Charging' warning with the same 16 amp draw, but now it shows +1 km in range. Images 4 and 5 approximately 11 minutes later show that the blue bar and snow flake are no longer present, and while I have the same "Limited Charging" warning, the Model 3 is now showing +5 km in range. If you look closely at image 4, you can see that the charge port is actually displayed in yellow. A short while later, I moved the Model 3 into the garage and started again. Images 6 thru 9 show the effect on charge rate by turning climate control on. With the same warning and 16amp draw, the charge rate goes from a peak of 9 km/hr at 4:23 to 0 km/hr at 4:37 with climate control on. I then turn climate control off, and at 4:43 the "Limited Charging" warning disappears, the Model 3 is now able to draw 36 amps and the charging light inside the charge port door turns to flashing green as shown in image 10. Turning climate control on was still limiting the charge rate after 32 minutes of charging even when the car was able to draw the full 36 amps being supplied.

Some thoughts: Image 11 shows the heat wave icon in the centre with the word Heating underneath, which I used in a previous post. Although I was not quick enough to capture that at the start of this trial, that image did appear for a very short period not long after turning climate control on at the start. Could this be the Model 3's missing battery warming icon? I think it might be, and instead of displaying constantly, it activates to indicate that heating the battery has started and then reverts to the defrosting screen to show interior climate control status. It is either this, or the method of using the motor to generate heat for this purpose is extremely efficient because it was on for less then 2 minutes(maybe even less then 1 minute) and never returned. And it is clear that the battery was warming as it took less then 11 minutes to clear the blue bar and snow flake icon status. Is the rewarm shown here resulting from the charge itself, or was the motor being used to generate heat as described earlier? The one thing that never does appear is a bar in the energy consumption meter that some Model S and X owners have talked about. If the motor was using current to generate heat, it was not visible from inside the cab. So as a final note, it is still not completely clear what causes battery warming/preconditioning when charging in cold climates. Regarding the "Limited Charging" warning, this was clearly due to the low temperatures that the car was being charged at.

Lessons learned: The Model 3 is not able to differentiate between a faulty connection and a low temperature. The Model 3 is able to rewarm the battery pack in less then 11 minutes at -6C so that the blue bar and snow flake disappear, but charging rates are severely affected, which was expected. From use, it is very obvious that the car will unlock regen much faster when it is kept plugged in over night or when not in use. Considering that I tried to recreated the scenario described in the owners manual regarding warming a cold battery and was unable to generate a discreet icon like in the Model S and X, Tesla could do a lot more to inform its Model 3 customers what to expect in terms of normal operating behaviour in cold climates. If we are not sure how the car is supposed to operate normally, how can we be certain that it is? The operators manual states that the user can warm a cold battery by activating climate control, it does not specifically state that the motor will draw current while parked to generate heat and warm the battery. It could be that the high draw from the cabin heater, which as shown here is clearly coming directly from the battery and not the wall, is responsible for the heating. It could also be that it is just contributing to heat being generated by the motor.
And lastly, I really love my Model 3. Before purchasing, I had a lot of questions related to whether or not an EV could work for me. After driving my Model 3 across North America and back this past summer, the obvious answer for warm weather driving is a resounding YES! The only question left is whether that remains true for cold weather driving. So far as we head into Christmas, I have not had to deal with a situation that the Model 3 could not handle. Except for the desire to have a little more range then is currently available to allow more coping ability in and EV during extreme weather conditions, temporary limitations in regen ability are easily managed. However, the decrease in charging rate and range could be more problematic for some. Aside from small tweaks in software function and the documentation that should be included, Tesla could probably make small improvements to the Model 3's door handles as it relates to cold climate ownership. While the cold weather update seems to have adequately addressed problems with plugging and unplugging the charge wand, problems with the door handles persist. Obviously this is a hardware issue and will likely require a future update to what ever mechanical part is sticking in the Model 3 door handle. Would I have cancelled my reservation had I known all of this information before actually configuring my car. Not even a chance! The Model 3 is hands down the best car I have ever owned. When it does so many things right, it is hard to criticize such a small blemish.

 

[evJOULE]

Images 11 and 12. (10 image max limit)

 

[evJOULE]

I don't know why the upload image never works with my browser. In case everyone else is experiencing the same, here are images 1 thru 5 again.

 

[evJOULE]

Images 6 thru 12.

 

[SSedan]

Lessons learned: The Model 3 is not able to differentiate between a faulty connection and a low temperature. The Model 3 is able to rewarm the battery pack in less then 11 minutes at -6C so that the blue bar and snow flake disappear, but charging rates are severely affected, which was expected. From use, it is very obvious that the car will unlock regen much faster when it is kept plugged in over night or when not in use. Considering that I tried to recreated the scenario described in the owners manual regarding warming a cold battery and was unable to generate a discreet icon like in the Model S and X, Tesla could do a lot more to inform its Model 3 customers what to expect in terms of normal operating behaviour in cold climates. If we are not sure how the car is supposed to operate normally, how can we be certain that it is? The operators manual states that the user can warm a cold battery by activating climate control, it does not specifically state that the motor will draw current while parked to generate heat and warm the battery. It could be that the high draw from the cabin heater, which as shown here is clearly coming directly from the battery and not the wall, is responsible for the heating. It could also be that it is just contributing to heat being generated by the motor.
And lastly, I really love my Model 3. Before purchasing, I had a lot of questions related to whether or not an EV could work for me. After driving my Model 3 across North America and back this past summer, the obvious answer for warm weather driving is a resounding YES! The only question left is whether that remains true for cold weather driving. So far as we head into Christmas, I have not had to deal with a situation that the Model 3 could not handle. Except for the desire to have a little more range then is currently available to allow more coping ability in and EV during extreme weather conditions, temporary limitations in regen ability are easily managed. However, the decrease in charging rate and range could be more problematic for some. Aside from small tweaks in software function and the documentation that should be included, Tesla could probably make small improvements to the Model 3's door handles as it relates to cold climate ownership. While the cold weather update seems to have adequately addressed problems with plugging and unplugging the charge wand, problems with the door handles persist. Obviously this is a hardware issue and will likely require a future update to what ever mechanical part is sticking in the Model 3 door handle. Would I have cancelled my reservation had I known all of this information before actually configuring my car. Not even a chance! The Model 3 is hands down the best car I have ever owned. When it does so many things right, it is hard to criticize such a small blemish.

Do you really think Tesla is so incompetent as to have the computer that is limiting charge rate to mistake that limited charge rate for a bad connection?

Also the battery does not cool off all that fast and has nothing to do with interior temp, yes it will chill and limit regen but it takes a long time to reach ambient temp. If I drive my car daily I see different morning regen behavior than if it sits unused for 36hours, if you want to make presumptions about battery heating efficiency you need actual battery temp.

 

[evJOULE]

Do you really think Tesla is so incompetent as to have the computer that is limiting charge rate to mistake that limited charge rate for a bad connection?

Also the battery does not cool off all that fast and has nothing to do with interior temp, yes it will chill and limit regen but it takes a long time to reach ambient temp. If I drive my car daily I see different morning regen behavior than if it sits unused for 36hours, if you want to make presumptions about battery heating efficiency you need actual battery temp.

I can't tell if the problem is your comprehension, or my ability to convey and idea through written text, so I have to ask, did you read my entire post, or just the line you highlighted in red? In case you have read only the part highlighted in red, I was receiving a caution while charging that was stating the following; "Limited Charging, charge cable may not be plugged in correctly". This was accompanied by a yellow flashing light at the charge port instead of the usual green flashing light that you get when the charge is proceeding normally. You can see both the charge port pictured as being yellow and the caution notice I received in both the Tesla mobile app, and the in-dash message on the Model 3 touch screen in any number of attached pictures above. As I have already mentioned above, I did try to reinsert the charge cable several times to no avail. Meaning I stopped charging, removed charge cable, reinserted charge cable, and then observed whether the car would start charging again normally which would be indicated by a flashing green light. After several attempts at this, I just let it continue to see what would happen, and, well, as you can see after reading my post and viewing the attached images, both the yellow flashing light and the caution message would eventually go away on their own, which was timed exactly when the car was warm enough to accept the full 36 amp charge. I am pretty convinced that the yellow flashing light and caution message I was receiving resulted when I tried charging a cold battery (blue bar and snow flake icon). I may be wrong, but I have no other way to explain why the yellow flashing light and message disappeared exactly the same time the car accepted the full charge. You can see in the images that the charge port is pictured as being yellow while the caution message is present, and then appears green when the caution message disappears and the car starts charging at 36 amps. After saying that, I did another charge today at slightly higher temps (-4C) and didn't get the caution message or the yellow flashing light. The car started charging normally from the start.

to answer your question, no I do not think Tesla is incompetent. Did I say that?

As an answer to your comment about battery temps, the reason I had to ask whether you read my post is because I never said, implied, or suggested even in the slightest that the battery cools down fast, that it has anything to do with interior temp, or made a guess as to the time required to equalize with ambient temperature. Nor am I making any presumptions on battery heating efficiency. I am simply stating my observations, which I thought would be obviated by all the pictures. The only information I left out, and I now realize that it may be at least in part responsible for your apparent confusion, is that before charging I had to make about a 5 minute drive from where I was parked for several hours, to where I charged the car. That is the reason I mentioned that I left the doors open for several minutes. It was only to allow the interior to reach ambient temperature, not the battery. I wanted to recreate as close as possible the scenario where the car sat unplugged for several hours.

In the end, my only interest here is to understand how the Model 3 handles heating for the battery. I have yet to see the so called battery heating icon that has been shown with Model S and X, and am starting to wonder if the reason for that is because it does not exist.

 

[ggnykk]

Much better way to quickly warm the battery. Start watching at 7:30

 

[scottm]

We have an S (4 years) and a new 3. I never charge much at home anymore, so gave my wife and her new 3 the sweet spot in the garage closest to the charger. She likes to leave the 3 plugged in a lot with charge level of around 70. She'll use App climate to warm the car before trips mostly for comfort not so much battery conditioning. Sometimes it conditions for a bit and we see the squiggly lines on the App, but mostly she's pulling away with limited regen... like me... and I have to say this... that's OK!

Regen is over-rated. The fact you're not gettin' any is OK. I mostly prefer not having regen.

We're out in the country and our first several miles are always highway. No need to slow down, no need for regen, but if we need to slow down then brakes work fine. I am a seasoned EV driver in the S and frankly I prefer setting regen to LOW for highway driving in all seasons, and I wish I could turn it off completely for highway driving in all seasons. Yes you heard that right. It's a fact you'd get better energy efficiency (eMPG) by letting the car ride out speed by traveling more distance with low or no regen and staying off the brakes versus letting up on the accelerator and having the car go crazy trying to maximize packing juice back into the battery. I time my stops way in advance and always leave huge distance buffer spaces ahead of me so I basically never use brakes except coming close to the stop sign and stopping.

Regen may be more for you in city driving. Where starts and stops are less predictable. Regen helps EVs at being more efficient with city miles versus highway... that, plus speeds are lower in city so wind resistance is less of a factor.

I use Range mode ON for the S for my commute which is about 35 minute highway trip. The limits the amount of resistive battery heating and cabin heating, so I wear a hat and gloves. I wish there was a Range mode Button in the 3... or is there but we haven't found it yet? It would go on too for highway trips. Whatever waste heat there is from motor/inverter goes to the battery and that's enough. I don't need to spend precious range on having a "tight regen" battery. All that warmth is wasted for one big slow down and stop at the end of my commute.

The 3 seems to be doing fine. We see blue bars, snow flakes, limited regen notices, etc.. just saying the obvious, "Hey, I'm cold". But the car drives fine and charges fine at home every time. Always 70% next morning.. rinse and repeat.

 

[evJOULE]

Much better way to quickly warm the battery. Start watching at 7:30

@ggnykk, thanks for the video tip. I have seen this before, but it is not something I would do myself or recommend anyone else to either. If you consider the extent that the BMS regulates charge rate and temperature of the battery, it seems to me that causing high rates of discharge when the battery is too cold to charge could potentially be just as damaging. Driving your car at steady highway speed for 20 minutes or so also warms the battery without the heavy foot. I was more interested though in Model 3's builtin ability to warm the battery in cold weather when plugged in. So far I have not heard of anyone reporting that they were able to show the Model 3 heating the battery. And after following the instructions given in the owners manual on how to warm the battery when cold, I can't really say that I was able to either. At least not with %100 certainty. I was able to show that the battery warms up, but there was no absolute indication that the battery was being warmed other then what normally happens during charging. As I mentioned in one of the previous posts, I did receive a very momentary message with the word "HEATING", but there was no battery icon attached to it like you would see with Model S and X.

 

[evJOULE]

We have an S (4 years) and a new 3. I never charge much at home anymore, so gave my wife and her new 3 the sweet spot in the garage closest to the charger. She likes to leave the 3 plugged in a lot with charge level of around 70. She'll use App climate to warm the car before trips mostly for comfort not so much battery conditioning. Sometimes it conditions for a bit and we see the squiggly lines on the App, but mostly she's pulling away with limited regen... like me... and I have to say this... that's OK!

Regen is over-rated. The fact you're not gettin' any is OK. I mostly prefer not having regen.

We're out in the country and our first several miles are always highway. No need to slow down, no need for regen, but if we need to slow down then brakes work fine. I am a seasoned EV driver in the S and frankly I prefer setting regen to LOW for highway driving in all seasons, and I wish I could turn it off completely for highway driving in all seasons. Yes you heard that right. It's a fact you'd get better energy efficiency (eMPG) by letting the car ride out speed by traveling more distance with low or no regen and staying off the brakes versus letting up on the accelerator and having the car go crazy trying to maximize packing juice back into the battery. I time my stops way in advance and always leave huge distance buffer spaces ahead of me so I basically never use brakes except coming close to the stop sign and stopping.

Regen may be more for you in city driving. Where starts and stops are less predictable. Regen helps EVs at being more efficient with city miles versus highway... that, plus speeds are lower in city so wind resistance is less of a factor.

I use Range mode ON for the S for my commute which is about 35 minute highway trip. The limits the amount of resistive battery heating and cabin heating, so I wear a hat and gloves. I wish there was a Range mode Button in the 3... or is there but we haven't found it yet? It would go on too for highway trips. Whatever waste heat there is from motor/inverter goes to the battery and that's enough. I don't need to spend precious range on having a "tight regen" battery. All that warmth is wasted for one big slow down and stop at the end of my commute.

The 3 seems to be doing fine. We see blue bars, snow flakes, limited regen notices, etc.. just saying the obvious, "Hey, I'm cold". But the car drives fine and charges fine at home every time. Always 70% next morning.. rinse and repeat.

Unlike you, I really like to use regen. I really liked the recent update with improvements in regen, but wish Tesla would update to allow full one-pedal driving. So my interest here was to ask if anyone was able to get the battery heating thingy to work, because I can't seem to, or at least I can't be certain that it is. In terms of conditioning, I don't believe it has had any effect at all. I have run the climate control for nearly 45 minutes before departure with no apparent change in regen.

 

[BrandonLive]

Just FYI, I noticed tonight that the app shows the “Charge cable may not be plugged in correctly” message for me, on the home screen of the app, when it seems to be connected fine. It’s saying it while I have it connected and waiting on a scheduled charge to start early in the morning. If I tell it to charge now, the message goes away and it charges normally.

In my case at least, I’m thinking the message is just a bug in the app.

 

[derotam]

Regen is over-rated. The fact you're not gettin' any is OK. I mostly prefer not having regen.

Yes you heard that right. It's a fact you'd get better energy efficiency (eMPG) by letting the car ride out speed by traveling more distance with low or no regen and staying off the brakes versus letting up on the accelerator and having the car go crazy trying to maximize packing juice back into the battery. I time my stops way in advance and always leave huge distance buffer spaces ahead of me so I basically never use brakes except coming close to the stop sign and stopping.

Yeah, and with my 3 on standard regen I still coast a lot...I just use my foot to maintain the power/regen at 0(center) and the car coasts. This way I can coast but if I need regen to slow me down more it is available without me having to use the brakes. Yes this is a bit more work than just taking your foot off the accelerator but it allows for more control over the vehicle without having to use brakes.

And you only get better eMPG by not using the BRAKES, not by not using regen. Now if you use regen too much and you have to accelerate unnecessarily, then you are reducing your eMPG again.

 

[evJOULE]

Just FYI, I noticed tonight that the app shows the “Charge cable may not be plugged in correctly” message for me, on the home screen of the app, when it seems to be connected fine. It’s saying it while I have it connected and waiting on a scheduled charge to start early in the morning. If I tell it to charge now, the message goes away and it charges normally.

In my case at least, I’m thinking the message is just a bug in the app.

Yeah that does sound like it might be a software thing. in my case, the "Limited Charging" message with yellow flashing light remained while the battery warmed up and charged. It wasn't until the battery warmed up enough to accept the full amp charge that the message went away and the charge port light turned to a flashing green. All of these things happened on their own with no intervention from me. So if it is a software thing, then it was able to correct itself as the charge progressed. But I agree, it doesn't really make sense that the car wouldn't recognize that the limited charge rate was being controlled by the BMS. You would think that a cold battery situation would look different then a faulty connection. I know for a fact that I had a similar message this past summer at a supercharger, but that was in warm weather and the problem was fixed by simply reinserting the charge cable. In this case, several attempts at reinserting the charging cable did not resolve the caution message.