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President Obama Calls for End To Oil and Gas Subsidies

Discussion in 'Energy, Environment, and Policy' started by NigelM, Mar 2, 2012.

  1. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    Think how fast private enterprise could get them up an running if it were profitable for them to do so. If there were a charge station on every street and parking spot, would you be willing to pay say $3 per hour to charge at them? Take the job away from the government, and it will get done better and faster. We're stuck on free charging. Maybe it shouldn't be.
     
  2. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin President, Florida Tesla Enthusiasts

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    Not only is this the right thing to do for the country, it's a very shrewd political move when there is really nothing meaningful the president can do in the short-term to reduce gasoline prices.

    Larry
     
  3. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    We have private companies deploying charging in the UK. The network is in the "chocolate teapot" category of uselessness.

    The only regional network that is doing a good job and seems to get it is ChargeYourCar in the North East, which is being driven by local government.
     
  4. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    Off topic stuff got moved to Off Topic. North Korea

    Please stay on topic.
     
  5. neroden

    neroden Model S Owner and Frustrated Tesla Fan

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    Problem is this is the same with everything, not just government. This is known technically as the "conservative bias" (using conservative in the traditional meaning, *not* the political one) in society -- once something is there, it tends to stay there, even if it's monumentally stupid. Corporations do it, non-profits do it, individuals do it. It applies to things as dumb as high heels. An egregious example in business is the habit of checking credit ratings (which are practically meaningless anyway, and easily manipulated) for anything and everything, including things for which even an accurate credit rating would be positively irrelevant.

    The only solution to this is to create a culture where "we've always done it this way" is not an acceptable justification for something. Dunno how though!
     
  6. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Even when subsidies or other programs have "sunset provisions," which are intended avoid this conservative bias, it's hard to kill anything once it's begun.

    Exhibit A: the Bush-era "temporary" tax cuts.
    Exhibit B: the production tax credit for wind power.

    (There, now I've given grist for the left and the right to excoriate me!)
     
  7. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Maybe all subsidies should only last 8 years at most and can only be renewed once for an additional 8 years with at least 2/3rd's of Congress. How you'd get Congress to adhere to that, short of a constitutional amendment though, would be tough.
     
  8. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Problem is that since technology like wind cannot make it without a ten year subsidy they need a long term promise of government backing. A two year sunset on subsidy renders it useless. Turbine makers need to spend vast capitol for a few years to develop the technology and manufacturing before even having a derivable product. With a two year subsidy they won't invest since there is no guarantee that in two years incentives will be renewed.
     
  9. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    Agreed, vfx: the Investment Tax Credit was a better structure, because it rewarded building the plant rather than operating it.
     
  10. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin President, Florida Tesla Enthusiasts

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    #30 Larry Chanin, Mar 4, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
    The US can't afford to substitute our current dependency on foreign oil for a future dependency on foreign batteries or photovoltaics, etc. It seems that so far foreign governments such as China are more aggresively subsidizing these sustainable technologies. As a result it wouldn't be prudent to have some sort of pre-set schedule to phase out subsidies if we are serious about attempting to maintain a level playing field during the adoption of theses important new technologies.

    Larry
     
  11. rolosrevenge

    rolosrevenge Dr. EVS

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    No, because this led to people building wind turbines without generators because it was much cheaper, and nowhere in the tax law did it say the turbines actually had to produce anything.
     
  12. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Really? Obviously I don't actually know you but you've always seemed like a rational individual, where Santorum comes off as a religious fanatic with no understanding of the intent of the founding fathers. It's hard to imagine a more dangerous individual as the leader of this country. Luckily I don't think he has a chance, even though it would be an easier win for Obama, the small chance that Santorum could actually be president is just too terrifying.
     
  13. Lloyd

    Lloyd Well-Known Member

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    I guess it's all relative. I can't relate to Romney, his life is very different and has a skewed perspective of business only from the macro scale. Gingrich has been in government so long he is a little out of touch IMO. Although Paul is a physician by trade he is fiscally conservative dispite consequences, and I can't relate to that. So...... I'm left with..... Santorum. Remember I was asked of the choices is had, and they all have faults. Nobody's perfect!
     
  14. Beavis

    Beavis Model S Signature 991

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    To get back on topic.....Republicans have responded to Obama's call to end oil & gas subsidies. Two bills, one the the House and one in the Senate, have been introduced that would end 14 credits and Grants in Lieu of Credits that relate to the energy industry, including clean energy and renewables. The credit for your Tesla is included in the list of credits to be repealed even though it is currently scheduled to lapse after this year. The House bill is sponsored by Pompeo of Kansas and DeMint is sponsoring the Senate bill.

    Neither bill is expected to get to the President, of course. We won't get any tax legislation before the election. The importance of the bills is that they give everyone an idea of which way the wind is blowing on the right.
     
  15. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    I can't relate to Romney either, and I'm not of the mindset that any businessman is necessarily a good choice to run a government, but of the candidates he seems the least irrational, and least dangerous for the country. I also can't relate to Obama and think there are many things he could have done better, but as a leader actually trying to push the country away from our dependence on oil and fossil fuels, and promoting alternatives, I still think he's a better choice than any of the GOP field. I'm afraid that under a Republican presidency EV's could be sidelined once again.
     
  16. AnOutsider

    AnOutsider S532 # XS27

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    If EVs weren't a factor (it's a bigger issue to most on this board than others), how would that change your perception?
     
  17. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    I look at EV's as part of our entire energy policy, which I think is critical to our future, so it's hard to separate it. Even without EV's I don't like the direction the Republicans want to go in regards to energy, which seems like a return to business as usual, and an unsustainable fantasy. Newt's big thing now is $2.50 per gallon gasoline, which is as unreal as the pretend gas pump he put on his campaign bus. I'm also quite troubled by the continued GOP embrace of religious fanatics. Religion is a personal issue and has no place in running a country, as our founding fathers understood quite well.
     
  18. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    From cbsnews,com: Santorum: Obama's worldview upside-down

    Which is why: Mitt Romney Trouncing Rick Santorum Among Catholics
     
  19. eledille

    eledille TMS 85 owner :)

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    #39 eledille, Mar 5, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2012
  20. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Do you have Bill numbers?
     

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