President of GM taught us what it takes for EV to go mainstream

[Lanzer]

Found this gem of an article on CNN business:
GM president: Electric cars won't go mainstream until we fix these problems (opinion) - CNN

In it Mark Reuss tells us what it would take for EV's to go mainstream. There are 3 factors apparently:

1) Range of 300 miles or higher
2) Charging infrastructure
3) Cost

When it comes to range he list the most popular EV's on the road have 240miles of range or more, including the Chevy Bolt EV along with Tesla, Hundai and Kia EV's. He works for GM, so I suppose he shouldn't mention any EV that had already achieved 300 miles of range.

When it comes to charging infrastructure, I love is how he said "manufacturers, charging companies, industry groups and governments at all levels must work together" to build a charging network. Pretty much putting the ball on someone else's court.

Not gonna argue over his statement that EV need to come down in price. Though the key factor is all about how good you will be at producing cheap batteries. I'd love to hear more from GM down the road.

Conclusion:
"Removing these barriers will lead to what I consider the ultimate key to widespread EV adoption — the emergence of the EV as a consumer's primary vehicle"

My eyes are getting a great exercise from rolling so hard.

 

[Runt8]

Electrek did a good analysis: https://electrek.co/2019/11/25/gm-p...to-hold-off-buying-an-ev-should-we-trust-him/

 

[TomB985]

I saw this article being lampooned on Twitter, and it made me shake my head.

In my neck of the woods, EVs are far from main stream, and I think his concerns were dead on. The model three is not a cheap car, out of the reach of most people in my area. And most who can afford it make other choices because of the reasons referenced in that article. Not everyone lives in Southern California…

 

[SouthSeas]

I saw this article being lampooned on Twitter, and it made me shake my head.

In my neck of the woods, EVs are far from main stream, and I think his concerns were dead on. The model three is not a cheap car, out of the reach of most people in my area. And most who can afford it make other choices because of the reasons referenced in that article. Not everyone lives in Southern California…

I agree with Mark Reuss regarding EVs becoming mainstream. The good sales of the model 3 seems to make many people and in particular people here (meaning nearly all Tesla owners) think EVs are mainstream. EVs are a long way from being mainstream.

Personally I think that will happen in something like 5 years or maybe a bit long. I also think the 3 factors Mark Reuss points out are very critical to going mainstream but not in that order. To me it is...

1) Cost
2) Cost
3) Cost

Oh, and did I mention cost? The reality of range is that you can always build a car with as much range as you want, but it will cost more. Charging infrastructure is important, but more important to some than others. Only some people are buying electric cars when they can't charge at home. They live in apartments with no access to electricity and can't charge at work. Those are actually easy problems to solve which like Mark Reuss said, will require more than just the car maker to solve. Some places have legislated that apartment owners have to allow a tenant to install AC charging at the tenant's expense. That's a start. At some point the market may require such chargers to make units more rentable.

The trip charging infrastructure need to be ramped up as well, but that is underway. VW dumped 2 billion dollars into US infrastructure and GM is getting involved as well. With both companies ramping up in the next two or three years they will need to have glossy maps of chargers to show prospective buyers. I've been into the local Chevy dealers a few times and when I ask about charging the Bolt they don't have much to say. Likely a big part of why they aren't selling. They don't seem to get involved at all in setting up home charging either which is the easy path to a 90% solution.

I think range is the least of the issues in any real way. Yes, people are used to having a range of 300+ miles, but that is really a cost issue since it is more about how many battery cells than any thing else. While technology can help with this, changes in technology aren't required for a solution.

 

[T3SLAROD]

Charging is the biggest obstacle, I’ve learned that advertised range is only good for a couple thousand miles and then starts going down. If there is a breakthrough from 0 to full charge in 10 min. then that will be what puts people over. It takes about 10 min. to fill up at. Gas station.

 

[SouthSeas]

Charging is the biggest obstacle, I’ve learned that advertised range is only good for a couple thousand miles and then starts going down. If there is a breakthrough from 0 to full charge in 10 min. then that will be what puts people over. It takes about 10 min. to fill up at. Gas station.

That's what people are used to thinking about. But what if instead they learn they may never need to use a service station again? Charge at home and don't worry about it, never think of "do I need to get fuel" again. I have friends who live 20 miles from a gas pump. They have to think about filling the tank every time they go to town and "did Susy fill the tank before she came home last night".

The downside is on trips you will need to stop and charge for an hour every three or four hours. Just enough time to grab a bite and take a leak. Who doesn't do that anyway?

 

[Nocturnal]

I saw this article being lampooned on Twitter, and it made me shake my head.

In my neck of the woods, EVs are far from main stream, and I think his concerns were dead on. The model three is not a cheap car, out of the reach of most people in my area. And most who can afford it make other choices because of the reasons referenced in that article. Not everyone lives in Southern California…

I don't find those arguments compelling. An F150 or Camry aren't cheap vehicles either, and they are the most popular cars in the country. Ruling out people who genuinely can't make an EV work currently, the biggest barrier is mentality.

Charging is the biggest obstacle, I’ve learned that advertised range is only good for a couple thousand miles and then starts going down. If there is a breakthrough from 0 to full charge in 10 min. then that will be what puts people over. It takes about 10 min. to fill up at. Gas station.

Unless you only have street parking, charging is zero concern unless you are on a long road trip. If I can charge at the remote cabin I stayed at this past winter outside of Denver, then so can anyone else. ​

 

[SageBrush]

The downside is on trips you will need to stop and charge for an hour every three or four hours

After you use up whatever you have from your destination charging.

I use 400-500 mile trips from home as my standard test (TM).
It works out to 100 - 200 miles of charging on the road, so about 10 - 20 minutes. I spend more than that shaking out my back, emptying my bladder, and avoiding blood clots. For me the 'charging time' is a negative number.

 

[SageBrush]

I think range is the least of the issues in any real way.

That is because you own an EV. The group that does not thinks of little else.

 

[SMAlset]

When I read the CNN article the other day I thought: check, check, check. Just need to buy a Tesla. No sympathy for these manufacturers who did everything in their power to see EVs really fail. We all know what compliance efforts were worth.

 

[outdoors]

When Mark is referring to "WE". Is that GM or EV industry? Seems like one company is doing most of the things needed, and also trying to bring down price to make EV's on par with ICE's. Maybe GM could take a stab at the infrastructure aspect. Ford was just a tack on of what others had already done.

Most legacy automakers can't take the dive in the pool approach. Tend to be afraid pool might be empty rather than filling it themselves.

 

[T3SLAROD]

I don't find those arguments compelling. An F150 or Camry aren't cheap vehicles either, and they are the most popular cars in the country. Ruling out people who genuinely can't make an EV work currently, the biggest barrier is mentality.

Unless you only have street parking, charging is zero concern unless you are on a long road trip. If I can charge at the remote cabin I stayed at this past winter outside of Denver, then so can anyone else. ​

Not everyones situation is the same regardless of whether you can charge or not. Sometimes a 30 min. SC stop is not feasible, even when not on a road trip.

 

[SMAlset]

What I find annoying is how now some of these manufacturers are sharing their “vision” of what’s needed no credit to Tesla in that they figured this out years ago. Telling potential buyers to wait for them to catch up is so laughable.

I did find it interesting to read that Ford’s MachE had all its plans scrapped not that long ago and they suddenly came up with the current config, which looks a lot like the Model Y btw with some modifications and some of the Mustang details added.

 

[focher]

Mark Reuss writing an article on what it will take BEVs to become mainstream is a total joke. He wrote that article 10 years ago when the Volt was being developed, he was in charge of the Volt's marketing, then the ELR, then the Bolt. Even printing what he wrote is ridiculous. If he thinks those are the three main problems, why doesn't he and his employer (GM) do something about it in all this time.

Instead, they've released nothing more than minimum compliance vehicles. They've spent no money or effort on charging infrastructure, haven't bothered to invest in battery manufacturing that would bring down costs, nor released a compelling car. The Bolt, while it checks the range box, is in a segment that almost no American buys.

Reuss isn't some outsider writing some recommendations. He is the industry, and he's been in charge for a long time. And he's done almost nothing. So excuse those of us who know Reuss is just a blowhard, do nothing "evangelist".

 

[1.21GW]

I agree that many auto OEMs are talking about “green” technology, but most don’t rise above the level of compliance vehicles or marketing material. It’s time for the industry to make actual EVs that people want to drive. They understand their demographics and what it will take, however most are not willing to invest. Right now, it is all a bunch of green washing articles and statements. Exxon and Shell are doing the same thing, investing in things that are good for marketing, but not actual change.

 

[SmartElectric]

read that Ford’s MachE had all its plans scrapped not that long ago and they suddenly came up with the current config, which looks a lot like the Model Y btw with some modifications and some of the Mustang details added.

At least Ford offers AWD in the standard battery size, not forcing large battery for this capability. Wish Tesla did the same.

 

[SMAlset]

The article interview at the LA auto show with the marketing guy from Toyota was a hard read.

Interview: Toyota’s sales and marketing chief says there’s no demand for EVs - Electrek

 

[afadeev]

I don't find those arguments compelling. An F150 or Camry aren't cheap vehicles either, and they are the most popular cars in the country.

Camry starts at $24K.
F150 starts at $28K.
Model 3, theoretically, starts at $35K, but practically, at $39K.

For many folks, especially outside of the Western world, that is a very sizable gap.
For obvious reasons, that is not the case for members of this forum.

Please, don't confuse selection bias with consensus!

Electrek did a good analysis

Not exactly.
They recycled their usual "us vs. them" narrative.

When I read the CNN article the other day I thought: check, check, check. Just need to buy a Tesla.

That was my first reaction as well.
Then I did a double take, and realize that his point wasn't about EV pioneers, but mainstream EV adoption.
It's right there, in the title.
There is a difference.

There are real, and legitimate obstacles to widespread, mainstream EV adoption.
Ignoring them, or wishing them away, does little to accelerate EVs' acceptance.

I would, however, replace 1 of the 3 primary obstacles sited, with the following:
1) Cost.
2) Charging omnipresence (aka infrastructure). Tesla's is wider than average, but far from universal.
3) Charging cycle time (aka charging speed).

No-one cares about gasoline tank size, or range, since you can refuel ubiquitously, and quickly.
Once we drop EV charging times down to < 5-minutes (for 100% battery), the range conversation ends.
Permanently.

 

[Whitehawk]

Progress is being made - quickly. For me, drivability is vastly superior to ICE cars and the reason I think adoption will rapidly accelerate in the next few years. Battery prices will fall, range will improve, and charging options will grow. I see cold weather range loss as one of the most significant barriers for many. That too will be overcome at some point.

 

[sperkin]

He is correct.

#1 and #3 goes together. People need 300 miles that is also affordable. Something under $25k for 300miles would take this mainstream. I just don't see many Corolla or Civic buyers going EV right now.

#2 is also correct. Everyone needs to work together to get more charging stations. My work was going to install 12 Superchargers from Tesla if we got the parking spaces which we did, but the land owner would not allow Tesla to install it. These Superchargers would be free and paid by my company for use for EVERYONE but building owner said no. It would cause too much traffic and increase his insurance cost. I bet if insurance company agree not to increase his rate and city government pays an incentive, he would have said yes. It takes a lot of people and companies to work together to get chargers installs. Manufactures like Tesla pays for installation, landlords provide the space, and gaint companies can foot the electricity bills for everyone. My work even pays $250 a month to EV owners. They are doing everything possible to reduce emissions.

I'm glad many places are allowing Supercharegrs or Urban chargers on their lots.