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Preventive eMMC replacement on MCU1

hpartsch

Member
Aug 6, 2014
591
409
wa
Unfortunately I bought used. Out of warranty. :(
upload_2019-10-16_20-52-37.png

I'm not sure how hard it is to remove the MCU/how long it takes for this repair from @tedsk... But it might be worth looking into it to save yourself the hassle of it happening at a bad time. You lose all defrost/heat/cooling and it isn't fun. I see your in AZ... Would be way worse than WA.

Are you having any issues with your MCU such as random restarts while driving or the odometer/trip meters show --- for mileage or crazy alien fonts?
 

Shibiwan

Member
Jul 22, 2019
47
92
Arizona
View attachment 466963
I'm not sure how hard it is to remove the MCU/how long it takes for this repair from @tedsk... But it might be worth looking into it to save yourself the hassle of it happening at a bad time. You lose all defrost/heat/cooling and it isn't fun. I see your in AZ... Would be way worse than WA.

Are you having any issues with your MCU such as random restarts while driving or the odometer/trip meters show --- for mileage or crazy alien fonts?

No odd issues so far. I know it's going to happen, just when.

I did have a minor font corruption issue once or twice in the charging screen, more than a month ago, but none since the last few updates (currently on 2019.32.12.2)

Good news is I have a buddy in the electronics business and has experience/equipment to handle BGA IC packages and we're already talking about starting up a service to refurb the daughterboards, possibly with a socketed replacement if need be.
 
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aaron0k

Two failed MCU's on a S40 & S70D; both at 84k.
Apr 1, 2013
664
606
-
What might also help is many MCU1-owners complaining about this issue to Tesla, for example using this form on their web site: Contact | Tesla.

They are well aware of the issue and how this is affecting some early owners/adopters. However, long dead is the Tesla that did the right thing via 'courtesy' replacements and treating us like humans vs. flesh-based-data.

Unless you have a good amount of subscribers on your Twitter/YouTube... you have zero voice.

Call me jaded...



...and while I'm here, let me just say you alllll you sooo kawaii. Please hit the "Like" button, and thank you thank you to all my loyal Patreon supporters. Love ya!
 

rrolsbe

Member
Feb 18, 2017
216
123
Albuquerque
Most of the logs in the video appear to be syslog messages. If true, as I remember, syslog can be configured to log more or less or none at all. Since it has been five years since I messed with syslog, am I remembering this correctly? Hopefully this logging is only happening while the car is awake or being driven and not while it is sleeping.
 

rrolsbe

Member
Feb 18, 2017
216
123
Albuquerque
Tesla could just replace the daughter card containing the bad flash which should be much less expensive. Better yet, redo the daughter card and use an emmc flash that can be used with a socket or a Small Form Factor SSD attached to the board via a socket. Even if they redesign the daughter board, they still need to reduce the amount of logging so this flash wear-out problem does not happen for at least 10 years. I think Tesla wants their cars to last a long time otherwise why would they tout million mile traction motors/batteries, thoughts??
 

swegman

Active Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,580
1,617
If the eMMC fails and the screen goes dark, can one at least charge the car using the superchargers? What about charging via the HPWC?
 

aaron0k

Two failed MCU's on a S40 & S70D; both at 84k.
Apr 1, 2013
664
606
-
You don't think they are refurbishing the MCUs now? :rolleyes: (I doubt there is much e-waste as a result of this.)

It appears recent MCU1 replacements are refurbished units (cooties included); as I suspect they're out of stock of new units and are not manufacturing new ones.

With the increased attention, I do believe they will start to suppress logging. However that is probably too little, too late for older models.

I think the fair remedy (at least for MCU1 owners) would be for them to make the MCU1 -> MCU2 conversion kit available as soon as possible. If you're going to spend $$$$ to fix their design defect, at least they should give you Cuphead.
 

Kalud

Active Member
May 7, 2013
1,056
285
Montreal, QC
Generally speaking it doesn't charges because the MCU is not online it cannot check its database for location based charging current. So my assumption is that for safety reasons (using 40A on a location you have set to 25A for example) it refuses to charges. It should be able to supercharge but I've seen one occurrence of eMMC failing (no boot) and supercharging was not working. Car is fully driveable though as the gateway takes care of all vitals functions. The gateway give up waking up the MCU after some time (something like 30sec) and then car goes into drive. Just no music, maps, hvac control, not even via the app because it needs the MCU up. So its not a brick but not fun either.

There are at least two shops that I know personally in my area (Quebec, Canada) that do eMMC swap, restoring car keys (vpn, app) and restore backups of databases (bluetooth, profiles, maps locations, etc)

Véhicules électriques Simon André in Trois-Rivieres, QC

https://vemtl.com/ in Montreal, QC
 

swegman

Active Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,580
1,617
So basically, if the MCU goes down you have to get the car towed unless you happen to be close to a service center and have enough battery charge to get there. For example, I’m currently in Baton Rouge, LA. The nearest service center is likely in another state, which I could not drive to if I can’t superchargers.

Shouldn’t something as critical as this include some sort of redundancy or limp home mode (like automatic transmissions have) so you can at least charge the car to get to a service center?
 

Kalud

Active Member
May 7, 2013
1,056
285
Montreal, QC
Oh, thinking about supercharging working or not. It might be that the car was pay per use supercharging. Since the billing is car side (MCU) maybe that's why if refused to supercharge. I agree it should accept at least low current charging (AC) and some supercharging.

Those with free unlimited supercharging should be able to charge I guess.
 

michelh

Active Member
Jan 22, 2018
1,102
1,686
Arnhem
So basically, if the MCU goes down you have to get the car towed unless you happen to be close to a service center and have enough battery charge to get there.

Yes, at least when my 2013 MCU1 went black last year (after almost 400.000 km). The car would not charge on the HPWC, showed default settings on the dashboard (miles instead of km) and continued the interior settings that had been selected when it went down (pre-heating mode, with no possibility to stop it).
 

BIZTEam

Member
Feb 16, 2019
22
54
ZAGREB

Preventive eMMC change is best option, every 2-3 years. Either way its risky even to desolder working eMMC there is small posibility to change/alter/damage original data during the process. Proces of desolder/solder is risky.

Tesla is not to blame, this tegra is nvidia “of the shelf” embed system which can be found i Volvo, audi multimedia systems and some industrial tools.

They should use something like this, plug&play emmc and this aggony could be much easier.

For my own car i made clone of tegra with changed eMMC , if one dies on the road, another prepared in glovebox :)
 

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delanman

DESpaceX
Nov 30, 2013
133
64
Delaware
Work in progress! Help is welcome :) Doing this in my spare time.


More information is better.


You can just leave the old partition table and don't use the other space. The MCU won't use any of the additional storage anyway.

I wrote a script on how to create a blank image for a MCU1: Tesla Model S/X MCU1 eMMC image creator

Why wouldn't the MCU use the additional space? If it had more space to use, it would spread the read/write wear across a larger area.
Why would the code write to discrete hardware addresses rather than calling file system routines?

Or... Is this limited by the process of cloning the original eMMC?

update -- just saw JG's reply... wear leveler will use the extra space. makes sense.
 
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Reactions: AustinP

Krash

Data Technician
Apr 18, 2017
1,827
2,014
Intermountain US
When my MCU died I drove and AC charged for a couple of weeks. I am not sure why I was able to charge when others can't but I don't have any location based charge limits set.
 

S-Pain

Member
May 13, 2018
17
11
VA
guys i have 2013 year car version..butt then i look board i see only black blob (cob)where should be emmc chip.so what i do for next..
i already once had board replaced under warranty and now issue is back..
I hope Tesla didn't start covering it with epoxy. This would make repairs really hard. Please send a picture.
 

jjas40

Member
Sep 11, 2019
14
1
españa
hello from spain
I have a tesla from December 2013.
I still have a perfectly functioning screen mcu1 and I also have a backup of the hynix that I am going to renew before he dead.
@LuckyLuke @widodh
Do you think it is a good idea to convert the 64gb Swissbit to 8g from the hynix when the iso dumps?
Will the hidden memory space not kill the Swissbit in half life?
 

Ulmo

Active Member
Jan 19, 2016
4,324
4,428
Vienna Woods, Aptos, California
Read the bolded parts. I agree with the original author. Don't wait; do this before it's too late.

This was found in a European forum on TMC, translated by Google Translate. Is the original already in English? If not, I like their description of the 3 options available in Europe, which probably are substantially the same here in USA.

===================
Recently the necessary messages have appeared about screens of 'Classics' that went black, air conditioning and music that no longer work etc. See for example the wires:

Preventive eMMC replacement on MCU1

and:

Users complain about defective older Teslas due to worn-out emmc chips

Flash Memory on Some Tesla Cars Is Reportedly Burning Out, Causing Major Issues

UPDATE: Tesla Cars Have A Memory Problem That May Cost You A Lot To Repair

As you can read in these messages, the eMMC chip on the Media Control Unit (MCU, printed circuit board behind the large screen) breaks down due to the many write actions of the Tesla. This leads to the problems described above.
Repairing it by Tesla is expensive, think of an amount in the order of more than 3000 euros. Tesla then replaces the entire screen with the printed circuit board behind it and reinserts one of the same 'type'. So an MCU version 1 (MCU1) is replaced by a completely different MCU1, but with a working eMMC (of the same size).

However: this repair can be prevented and does not have to be that expensive: the eMMC can also be replaced in time. This chip only costs a few tens and then labor is added to replace it. That is considerably less than the costs for replacing the entire screen with Tesla.
In addition, it is important to know that there are two certificates on the chip that are needed to be able to communicate with Tesla's servers (for app access, updates, spotify, remote diagnosis, etc.). The other things that are on the chip are slightly less important, such as the positions of the trip meters to name one. The firmware is not irreplaceable: it can simply be put on it.

It now mainly plays with the Classic's (MCU1) up to and including production date February 2018. But if Tesla does not make any changes to the intensive logging, it will eventually also occur with the newer (MCU2) Teslas. Because 64GB chips are used instead of the 8GB, it may be that it takes much longer for the problem to occur with these 'younger' Teslas.

Assuming that you have an approx. 4 year old Classic (that is the moment when the problems may arise) there are (in addition to the costly replacement of the entire MCU by Tesla) actually three possibilities. But beware: it seems to have happened earlier and later.

A) just wait for the screen to fail and then replace the eMMC with a larger, high-quality copy, instead of the entire screen.
However, this strategy is not without risk. It is possible that the eMMC has become so bad that the certificates present on the chip can no longer be read. A data recovery company may be involved to try to read the certificates, but there is no guarantee that this will work. If that fails, Tesla will still have to be called in to get it going again via the previously described replacement and associated costs. Unfortunately, Tesla does not cooperate in providing the unique files for your car, they only offer a complete replacement of the MCU.

B) do not wait until you can no longer read the certificates and ensure that they are already read. Then you have saved it in advance and you can further choose option A) (wait until it goes wrong), or:

C) = option B) + immediately replace the eMMC with a larger, high-quality copy such as a 16.32 or even 64GB chip from Swissbit. That gives peace of mind, because you know that you will not bump into the black screen and the problem will probably not occur again for the first 10 years or longer due to the higher quality and larger chip.

My advice: opt for peace of mind for option C) or at least for option B) (unless money is not an issue for you and you allow Tesla to do the replacement).

I myself have chosen my 5 year old S for option C), because I was going on a long road trip to Portugal and Spain and did not want to run the risk of standing in the heat without air conditioning. Replacing turned out to be a tricky event: my eMMC already turned out not to be able to read properly anymore (without signals in the car that it was no longer functioning properly!). The certificates were still collected with great difficulty. Fortunately, data recovery was not necessary.

eMMC.jpg
Photo: replacing the eMMC

OK, but how do you arrange option B) or C)?
For all three alternatives the MCU must be built out of the car. There are a number of parties in NL who can help you with this. If you can extract the MCU yourself (or with the help of a forum member such as {censored} or a garage) then you can go to Terneuzen with Dennis from All Systems Go or in Eindhoven with {censored}. Both charge the same price of around € 300 for reading and replacing the eMMC. The duration is +/- 2 hours. Possibly {censored} can also go in and out of the MCU at his plac{...}​
===================
 
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