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Preventive eMMC replacement on MCU1

Actually, copying data off a failed ECU is a BIG issue.

Yep, we have put 1000's of hours into research into this. Many will find the docs and feel it is easy to do. Many may get lucky. Some will destroy the only chance to retrieve the file. However it's not totally tragic. Tesla is willing to restore them easily with a new MCU purchase.

Also there is a lot more to a emmc recovery then just copying the chip. Preventive can be much easier. Recovery can run into all kinds of issues.
 
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For those that have had MCU failures, this may be of interest. There's at least *some* possibility that the cars could be recalled for free (or reimbursed) replacements of the original eMMC chips. If you've replaced an MCU, you might be well-advised to add your complaints to the NHTSA database as they're only reporting 11 (!) complaints.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/24/us-opens-probe-into-tesla-model-s-after-touchscreen-failure-reports.html

Found the NHTSA investigation under action number PE20010. I guess I will also submit a complaint and reference that action number? Here is the actual NHTSA write up:

NHTSA Action Number: PE20010

Components ELECTRICAL SYSTEM, BACK OVER PREVENTION

Opened From: June 22, 2020–Present

Summary

The Office of Defects Investigation (ODI) has received eleven (11) complaints (VOQs) alleging failures of the touchscreen/Media Control Unit (MCU) in 2013 through 2015 Tesla Model S vehicles. The reports have been received over the past 13 months at service intervals ranging from 3.9 to 6.3 years.

The display control unit subassembly of the subject MCU is an NVIDIA Tegra 3 processor with an integrated 8GB eMMC NAND flash memory device. EMMC NAND flash devices have a finite lifespan based upon the number of program/erase (P/E) cycles. The subject MCU allegedly fails prematurely due to memory wear-out of the eMMC NAND flash. Tesla used the same MCU with the Tegra 3 processor in approximately 159 thousand 2012-2018 Model S and 2016-2018 Model X vehicles built by Tesla through early-2018.

MCU failures resulting from eMMC memory wear-out are likely to occur after periods of progressively degraded performance (e.g., longer power-up times, more frequent touchscreen resets, intermittent loss of cellular connectivity, loss of navigation). Final MCU failure results in loss of audible and visual features provided by the touchscreen, such as infotainment, navigation, and web browsing. This includes loss of rear camera image display when reverse gear is selected, resulting in reduced rear visibility when backing. Other effects of MCU failure include climate control defaulting to Auto mode and limits on battery charging current and maximum state of charge when recharging. MCU failure does not affect vehicle control systems (e.g., braking, steering, speed control) or supplemental restraint systems.

A Preliminary Evaluation has been opened to assess the scope, frequency, and safety consequences of the alleged defect.

The following VOQ numbers were referenced in the defect petition: 11317875, 11317499, 11315374, 11312177, 11288980, 11281197, 11279959, 11257209, 11232852, 11207819, 11302674

2014 TESLA MODEL S
 

FlatSix911

Porsche 918 Hybrid
Jun 15, 2015
7,629
8,021
Silicon Valley

Here is some additional information from Electrek...Tesla is under investigation by NHTSA for its MCU-touchscreen eMMC failure - Electrek

"The US National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) announced that it is launching an investigation into Tesla’s problem with older MCU (the media unit with a large touchscreen) in older Model S vehicles. Owners of older Tesla Model S and Model X vehicles have been reporting some issues with their MCUs.

The touchscreen would become less responsive, the power-up time becomes longer, the screen would freeze and would have to be rebooted, or even total failure of the MCU unit. Some owners believe that it is a problem with the embedded Multi-Media-Card memory (eMMC) in the MCU and that it is being overwritten to the point of failure. It has been known as the “eMMC failure” problem.

Tesla introduced a new MCU in 2018 that doesn’t have the same problem, but owners of older vehicles are still experiencing the problem in having to replace the unit out of warranty, despite seeing Tesla’s mistake as the source of the problem instead of a normal issue that occurs over time.

Some of them have complained to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) who now have launched an official investigation into the matter. The agency said that the investigation was especially looking into 63,000 Tesla Model S vehicles. They have received 11 complaints from Tesla owners regarding the issue. It could take months before we know the results of the investigation..."
 
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Mine hasn't failed, yet. Its showing all the signs (rebooting, laggy, audio tracks get stuck and skipping). I wonder if I could file one even though it hasn't officially failed yet? If enough complaints pile up, maybe we can force their hand on a recall.

You could upgrade yours first, and submit for reimbursement if it gets settled where Tesla is responsible. Or wait till the failure however there is no assurance the investigation and decision completes before yours fails. It's a good idea to look at your options.
 
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David99

Well-Known Member
Supporting Member
Jan 31, 2014
5,009
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Nomad (mostly US)
Starting Next month I will be on the road across the US. I'm doing a big road tour and will be going from Los Angeles through all southern states to Florida and then up the east coast. If you are in any of the following states and need help taking your MCU out, I can help. DM me if you are in Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Florida. Once I'm in Florida, I will post the next part of my trip.
 
Hello everybody,

After a black screen on the S85D (2015) of my wife, I had to replace the eMMC of the Tegra board. Problem, as some unlucky people, the eMMC was not readable :mad:
P1 and P2 was readable but with a lot of reading error, not possible to get valid firmwares.
And P3/P4 was filled with 0x00, not possible to get the most important certificate files :eek::eek:
Instead send the eMMC to Poland, to try to recover files by direct Nand access, because I like to learn, I spent a very lonnnnng time to learn about MMC and nand recovery, I built my own Nand reader, bought a specific adapter to access Nand signals on the eMMC package, and with help from a friend to unscramble data, I was able to recover the certificates files :cool:

So if you don't want to send eMMC to Poland, you can now send them to France for low level nand recovery when P3 is not readable :)
 
This will almost inevitably lead to a class action lawsuit.Tesla has known about this MUC/eMMC problem for at least 2 years now which means that all vehicles which were under warranty at the time should have been recalled and repaired, free of charge. This is not caused by an "electronics malfunction," this is caused by Tesla's excessive overwriting of the eMMC coupled with a cheap chipset. Tesla knows it, and anyone with electronics background knows it. It's incredible to Tesla has doubled down on their incompetence by shortening the warranty to two years now.
I have contacted Hagens Berman, the law firm that handled the $5M AP1 lawsuit and have asked them to initiate lawsuit with me as the lead plaintiff. Anyone wanting to join in let me know.
 

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
19,441
48,330
Oregon
This is not caused by an "electronics malfunction," this is caused by Tesla's excessive overwriting of the eMMC coupled with a cheap chipset. Tesla knows it, and anyone with electronics background knows it.

No, we have a number of people working on replacing the chips that think a lot of the failures are the controller portion of the chip and not the flash memory failing from excessive writes. (There are likely multiple root causes.) It is entirely possible that there was a bad batch of chips in the 2015 time frame, which is why we are seeing so many of them failing now, where we haven't seen the same failure rate for older cars. They have also significantly reduced the volume of log writes which should make replacements last longer, assuming that they don't suffer a controller failure.

It's incredible to Tesla has doubled down on their incompetence by shortening the warranty to two years now.

The warranty for the MCU that comes with the car hasn't changed. It is still 4-years/50k miles. The part, if you buy it out of warranty, used to come with a 1-year/12k mile warranty, then they upped it to a 4-year unlimited mile warranty, now they have dropped it to a 2-year/25k mile warranty. Still better than it was originally. (I think it better than the norm for the auto industry too.)

I have contacted Hagens Berman, the law firm that handled the $5M AP1 lawsuit and have asked them to initiate lawsuit with me as the lead plaintiff. Anyone wanting to join in let me know.

Good luck with that. If anything is going to happen it will likely because of the currently active NHTSA investigation.
 
No, we have a number of people working on replacing the chips that think a lot of the failures are the controller portion of the chip and not the flash memory failing from excessive writes. (There are likely multiple root causes.) It is entirely possible that there was a bad batch of chips in the 2015 time frame, which is why we are seeing so many of them failing now, where we haven't seen the same failure rate for older cars. They have also significantly reduced the volume of log writes which should make replacements last longer, assuming that they don't suffer a controller failure.



The warranty for the MCU that comes with the car hasn't changed. It is still 4-years/50k miles. The part, if you buy it out of warranty, used to come with a 1-year/12k mile warranty, then they upped it to a 4-year unlimited mile warranty, now they have dropped it to a 2-year/25k mile warranty. Still better than it was originally. (I think it better than the norm for the auto industry too.)



Good luck with that. If anything is going to happen it will likely because of the currently active NHTSA investigation.
Well I guess we'll see. This is a known problem and has been for quite a while and the NHTSA investigation adds further fuel to this fire. Regardless of the actual cause, the read/write cycles and the expected life of the chips IS, at the very least, a contributing factor. This is an integral part of the car that, in many cases, causes failure of the entire system. Tesla should have stepped up and fixed this and chose not to. This is almost a perfect example of why class action suits exist.
 

tomas

Out of warranty...
Supporting Member
Oct 22, 2012
4,345
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Santa Barbara/New York
Well I guess we'll see. This is a known problem and has been for quite a while and the NHTSA investigation adds further fuel to this fire. Regardless of the actual cause, the read/write cycles and the expected life of the chips IS, at the very least, a contributing factor. This is an integral part of the car that, in many cases, causes failure of the entire system. Tesla should have stepped up and fixed this and chose not to. This is almost a perfect example of why class action suits exist.
Ok good luck. Pleas don’t inundate this thread trawling for plaintiffs. It is annoying.
 
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Getting the MCU upgraded/replaced with MCU2 in a week or so in the 2015 S85D ....the unit definitely showing telltale signs of impending doom (flickering screen, spontaneous reboots, laggy browser); the service tech looked at the log and said it was like 90% done with life expectancy based on data files, etc. I have a Dell laptop that must be at least 12 years old that runs perfectly, but go know. Hope eventually TSLA steps up and corrects this issue for these early adopter cars.....
 
Getting the MCU upgraded/replaced with MCU2 in a week or so in the 2015 S85D ....the unit definitely showing telltale signs of impending doom (flickering screen, spontaneous reboots, laggy browser); the service tech looked at the log and said it was like 90% done with life expectancy based on data files, etc. I have a Dell laptop that must be at least 12 years old that runs perfectly, but go know. Hope eventually TSLA steps up and corrects this issue for these early adopter cars.....

Are you sure you will get the MCU2? Your car is a pre facelift - right (with the old Nosecone)?
 

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