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Hmmm. The power of the "C" word...
http://entertainment.timesonline.co...inment/books/book_extracts/article2701311.ece
I tend to prefer the expression "You can't polish a turd"
There has to be a synergy between the business model, the engineering, the styling, and the market. Many of the EVs of the past have involved engineers battling against inadequate technology and indifferent management and public.
http://entertainment.timesonline.co...inment/books/book_extracts/article2701311.ece
I tend to prefer the expression "You can't polish a turd"
There has to be a synergy between the business model, the engineering, the styling, and the market. Many of the EVs of the past have involved engineers battling against inadequate technology and indifferent management and public.
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Martin Eberhard was clearly refering to the difficulty of startup companies competing against the mature, established car companies. Many try the approach of reducing the cost of their cars so much that the car ends up being "crap". I agree, and the effect is not limited to EVs either. Anyone remember the Yugo? In many ways, even the DeLorean was crap: over priced, low quality, and very slow. The auto industry is extremely difficult and very, very, expensive to break into.
Your RangerEV was not produced by a startup company. It was built by Ford, which happens to be one of those mature, well established companies. So his comment doesn't even apply to your RangerEV. Actually, it stands on the other side of the comment, when compared to your RangerEV, many of the other electric cars look like crap.
Your RangerEV was not produced by a startup company. It was built by Ford, which happens to be one of those mature, well established companies. So his comment doesn't even apply to your RangerEV. Actually, it stands on the other side of the comment, when compared to your RangerEV, many of the other electric cars look like crap.
The Autobloggreen post with follow-up comment from Martin:-
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/1...ays-all-other-electric-car-companies-are-wro/
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/1...ays-all-other-electric-car-companies-are-wro/
Martin says,
“Think about cell phones and flat panel TVs and camcorders and refrigerators and air conditioners.
I have been using this in defense of the Roadster's price as well. I also use VCRs, DVD players, and laptop computers.
After reading these words I got to analyzing which of these products generated entirely new productlines. Some are totally new while most have a certain amount of crossover like a Tesla’s new car that does most of the same things existing cars do.
The closest comparison I can come up with is the DVD replacing the VCR. The VCR enabled you to time - record your favorite program or rent a movie and watch them at your leisure. The DVD came along with a more robust format smaller size, better picture, chapter search, and extras. But at first it did not record. Thanks mostly to the manufactures agreeing on a single format (no Beta vs. VHS wars) the DVD took over in a short 18 months and still the home systems could not record!
The Roadster and all Evs are certainly as sexytech as DVDs are compared to clunky mechanical VCRs and clunky/dirty ICE motors.
Tesla's "limitation" of 245 miles is comparable to not recording on DVD. Later models will go the magic 500 miles (the most reasonable drive-length in a day) and the electric car will be more on and equal playing field with the ICE car (Apartment and Condo dwellers will still have charging issues)..
New product category? You decide.
Landline phone and phone booths to cell phone
CRT televisions to Flat panels
8mm or 16mm home movies to camcorders (with any TV for a viewing device)
Ice box (with ice deliveries) to refrigerator
Open windows and swamp coolers to air conditioners
VCRs (no real consumer comparison)
Home and lunchbox computers to Laptop computers
Jacks to Pong
“Think about cell phones and flat panel TVs and camcorders and refrigerators and air conditioners.
I have been using this in defense of the Roadster's price as well. I also use VCRs, DVD players, and laptop computers.
After reading these words I got to analyzing which of these products generated entirely new productlines. Some are totally new while most have a certain amount of crossover like a Tesla’s new car that does most of the same things existing cars do.
The closest comparison I can come up with is the DVD replacing the VCR. The VCR enabled you to time - record your favorite program or rent a movie and watch them at your leisure. The DVD came along with a more robust format smaller size, better picture, chapter search, and extras. But at first it did not record. Thanks mostly to the manufactures agreeing on a single format (no Beta vs. VHS wars) the DVD took over in a short 18 months and still the home systems could not record!
The Roadster and all Evs are certainly as sexytech as DVDs are compared to clunky mechanical VCRs and clunky/dirty ICE motors.
Tesla's "limitation" of 245 miles is comparable to not recording on DVD. Later models will go the magic 500 miles (the most reasonable drive-length in a day) and the electric car will be more on and equal playing field with the ICE car (Apartment and Condo dwellers will still have charging issues)..
New product category? You decide.
Landline phone and phone booths to cell phone
CRT televisions to Flat panels
8mm or 16mm home movies to camcorders (with any TV for a viewing device)
Ice box (with ice deliveries) to refrigerator
Open windows and swamp coolers to air conditioners
VCRs (no real consumer comparison)
Home and lunchbox computers to Laptop computers
Jacks to Pong
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Well even though Malcom's story does tell about the power of crap, what Martin said is fundamentally different in that he said everyone ELSE is crap 
He's leading idea being that the Roadsters is something you want without it being "pollution-free" because it's better than a Porsche. His competitions products doesn't have that hence they are crap compared to their ICE counterpart.
I can't really understand the bid deal with Ratner either to be honest. If I buy something really cheap compared to the "normal" price for that item, I suspect the quality is lower than a premium part. If I buy a Citroen sedan I don't expect it to be better than a BMW either but since I might have paid only 60% of the price of BMW, it might be a good deal as for me.
But this is quickly going OT so I'll stop
Cobos
He's leading idea being that the Roadsters is something you want without it being "pollution-free" because it's better than a Porsche. His competitions products doesn't have that hence they are crap compared to their ICE counterpart. I can't really understand the bid deal with Ratner either to be honest. If I buy something really cheap compared to the "normal" price for that item, I suspect the quality is lower than a premium part. If I buy a Citroen sedan I don't expect it to be better than a BMW either but since I might have paid only 60% of the price of BMW, it might be a good deal as for me.
But this is quickly going OT so I'll stop
Cobos
Criticising EV punishment cars is kinda like shooting fish in a barrel. Martin should call Porsche crap for only achieving 15 mpg urban after decades of development.
After all, the real competition isn't other EV manufacturers - in spite of Miles's best shot
After all, the real competition isn't other EV manufacturers - in spite of Miles's best shot
Yes and no. They did pick one of their least expensive chassis to use as basis for their EV effort. Why didn't they base it on more of a flagship model like the Mustang, or even a Lincoln model?
And saying everyone else in your industry is crap is like saying you are the only clean thing in the toilet.
Even though the Tesla roadster may be the best of breed, it is still always to be associated with other EV efforts, so you have to be careful how much you are critical of related products.
It reminds me of how chiropractors, acupuncturists, rolfers and back surgeons tend to disparage each other. It leaves one with a bad back wondering if everyone is wrong.
I don't see how the word "crap" brings much new to Martin's general statements on previous electric efforts. He has called them "punishment cars" for ages now, a phrase that doesn't exactly ring of praise. It's not a big leap of semantics to go from "punishment" to "crap." Both adjectives should remind one that those cars failed because they weren't appealing.
I'm not sure that Ratner's example applies here at all. Ratner was calling his own product crap. That single comment wiped out a huge amount of market value of the shares, forced his resignation, and motivated the company to change its name. If Martin did the same -- called the Roadster a piece of crap -- he'd deserve the same fate as Ratner.
I'm not sure that Ratner's example applies here at all. Ratner was calling his own product crap. That single comment wiped out a huge amount of market value of the shares, forced his resignation, and motivated the company to change its name. If Martin did the same -- called the Roadster a piece of crap -- he'd deserve the same fate as Ratner.
If the Roadster is "crap" then it is refined "crap" like fertilizer. XD It will help the industry grow and clean the air in the process!
While we're on the subject... If it's yours, somehow it doesn't stink as much, but if it someone else's...
If you don't own that Roadster, that stinks. If you own one...
Add to that automotive mechanics. Here's hoping for a new beginning in that industry as well!
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JRP3
Hyperactive Member
He's talking about startup EV companies, not the previous efforts of Ford, GM, Toyota, etc.
I see nothing at all wrong with his statements.
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