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Price of electric motor and converter

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by vmbert, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. vmbert

    vmbert New Member

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    I was wondering what the production cost is for Tesla for an electric motor and converter.
    For example for the S85. Would that be $2000, $5000 or $10.000?

    I have been looking on the internet and on the forums but can't find any estimate.

    The reason I'm looking for this information is that I want to compare the possible Model 3 drivetrain costs with the BMW 3 series drivetrain costs.

    (I estimate the battery pack to cost $9.000)
     
  2. MacroP

    MacroP Member

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    Honestly - No one here will have that info - only speculation. That's is certainly privileged information however you can go to YouTube and looks at the Model motor being made and see how simple they are in construction. For the electric motor, transmission/differential unit and the inverter - on a similar production scale compared to a conventional engine and transmission must be an order of magnitude difference. I mean the time and effort involved in designing and building a conventional engine and modern multi-speed transmission is mind boggling compared to an electric powertrain let alone plus the various material costs.

    As for $9000 for the 85kWh battery? Sorry I could not agree on this even though I have no inside knowledge myself. There are 7104 cells in this alone plus if you have seen inside how complex the assembly is - you'll see that it could 3-4 times as much. They save a lot on the electric powertrain but all savings are lost on the battery pack. If and when the cell price comes down from economy of scale production then it's all academic from there for EVs.
     
  3. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    The best analysis I have seen is from Navigant Research which implies they have a source within Panasonic for cell cost.

    Right now cell cost is estimated to be $180 per kWh.

    Pack cost at $221 per kWh.

    Gigafactory reducing cell prices by 30%.

    Model 3 needs at least 48 kWh to get 200 mile range.

    $126 per kWh cell cost in 2017 plus $41 per kWh for packaging in pack assuming this is not reduced. Probably will but we don't know.

    $167 x 48 = $8016 battery pack for Base Model 3.

    $221 x 85 = $18,785 for current 85 kWh battery.

    Assuming 28% gross margins, the battery represents ~32% of the cost for the base 85 kWh car and about 25% of the average 85 kWh Model S. Which is the estimate Tesla Chief Technical Officer JB Straubel has stated publicly.

    I have read a BMW 3 Series glider cost is $22k. Don't know if Tesla can achieve that cost given scale in 2017.

    Tesla has not said anything publicly about drive unit cost that I have read. And since no one else is producing similarly powerful electric drive units on the Model S scale much less Model 3 we just don't know.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The cost of the battery packs can not be $36k on a $81k car with an ASP of $106k and gross margins of 26%-28% Tesla has officially stated.

    A writer on greencarreports.com has switched his S 60 battery for an 85 kWh battery. Retail price on the 85 kWh battery pack is $44,464. For every new pack they sell means they can not sell one new Model S 85. So they have to markup the battery to make a profit similar to selling the entire car.But they gave him an acceptable amount on his 60 kWh battery trade in.



    http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1089183_life-with-tesla-model-s-battery-upgrade-from-60-kwh-to-85-kwh/page-3
     
  4. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

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    Hmm. I hadn't heard that approach to the $44k number being taken before, but it does align rather nicely with the other approaches, doesn't it - the ~25% gross margin on a ~$100k selling price would be ~$25k, making the cost of the pack to Tesla ~$19k, just like the industry estimate you quoted above and not far from the 25% of ~$80k from the Straubel quote.

    I guess for the OP's original question, if we assume the $19k battery pack, and 25% margin on the car, and assume the Model S glider is ~30% more expensive than a 3 series for the mostly aluminum construction and larger car, then $80k - (19k+20k+29k) = ~$12k for the whole drivetrain.

    That glider number is a real SWAG, though - the drivetrain part could be anywhere from another $20k down to $8k or so.
     
  5. Danal

    Danal electricmotorglider.com

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    Those "Simple" looking electric motors are a lot more expensive than you think. And they price doesn't fall with scale of manufacturing as quickly as you'd think. Source: I buy motors for electric vehicles. And I'm constantly researching new ones for our needs.

    I don't have any better way to calculate cost of what Tesla is doing than those proposed above. I'm only saying "Don't assume they can be super cheap because they look simple in diagrams".
     
  6. RobStark

    RobStark Active Member

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    #6 RobStark, Mar 1, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2015
    Then your guesstimate is as good as any. What is your guesstimate for the Tesla drivetrain's cost?


    The motors ,reduction gear,inverter and affiliated hardware.
     
  7. EarlyAdopter

    EarlyAdopter Active Member

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    I thought I had read about someone running a towncar service using Teslas who had to replace a drivetrain out of warranty to the tune of $12k, or maybe it was $16k. I'll see if I can dig it up. It was a year or two back.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here is an article that mentions the situation I was referring to, though it's not the original source.

    Tesla Model S Drive-Unit Replacements: How Big A Problem? (Page 2)
     
  8. vmbert

    vmbert New Member

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    I'm sorry if I was unclear, with the $9.000 battery pack cost I meant the battery pack for the Model 3 once the gigafactory is in full production.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Can I ask you what prices you have for what kind of motor and if you have an idea of the scale of production for this motor?

    The electric motor doesnt only look simple in diagrams, I have seen a documentary about producing the Model S in which they show how the electric motor is made. It is only some casing, magnets, a lot of wiring and some controllers. I don't know much about motors and I may be exaggerating but an ICE enging looks a lot harder to produce with all its pistons, transmissions, cooling, lubrication, filtering, turbo's, ...
     

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