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Price VS Speed

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by vfx, Dec 6, 2006.

  1. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Many people are excited at the Tesla when they first hear about it. Naysayers seem to fall into two main catagories. The "Only 250 mile?s" group, and the "100K?!" group.

    On the second query, we now know the base price is 92K (not 89K) .

    So the best thing to do is compare the price to other cars with simiilar specs to 0-60 in 4 secs (though we should get the 0 to 100 numbers after reading Dan Neil's new article). Many of the exotics in this range will have luxury tax added to the price tag and fuel, oil, manitence etc. all contribute to the price of ownership.
    We all know all this

    I guess I'm asking what the best car is in price, upkeep and speed to compare the Roadster to retort the naysayers?


    e
     
  2. danny

    danny Administrator

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    Corvette ZO6
    Porsche 911 turbo 122
    Lotus Elise/Exige S with supercharger or whatever
    911 GT3

    Others that trail in performance but not luxory,
    maserati coupe
    astonmartin V8 vantage
    Carrera S
    uh....sl55AMG
    BMW M6
     
  3. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Greenspeed!

    So these cars will ultimately have the same price/ operating costs and have similar 0 to 60 times?

    e

    (goin to the LA show tonight)
     
  4. danny

    danny Administrator

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    No these cars are generally more expensive except for the ZO6 corvette and the operating prices will be much higher.
    But at the same time you get cars that have been around for a while and are a proven concept. Look at the 911 turbo and
    GT3, completely proven and worked out concept. All these cars are also much more luxurious except for the lotus then the
    tesla roadster.
    One thing we have to except it the tesla roadster is a electric elise with a nice exterior and faster 0-60, this puts in in nitche of
    its own. It matches the other cars in speed and style and beats them in usablitity and costs but loses in luxury.
     
  5. paco3791

    paco3791 TMC OG

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    I submit that it has yet to be proven if the tesla will beat out these cars in long term maintence costs. I hope that it does and looking purely from a moving parts/consumables stand point the tesla should win hands down. But given the fact that there are limited repair resources and that this is an unproven design the repairs/maintence costs may be significant. If you throw in very long term costs then you also have to look at a replacement battery pack in the equation. Again I'm just playing devils advocate, but we just don't know yet.
     
  6. Michael

    Michael Member

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    The good news is that by changing to use batteries that can tolerate an increased number of recharges, we can take the cost of replacement batteries out of the equation for long term maintenance. This should go a long ways towards making the vehicle most cost effective.
     
  7. tonybelding

    tonybelding Active Member

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    It seems the biggest maintenance cost on the Tesla Roadster should be replacement of the battery pack (ESU) after five years or 100,000 miles. The most credible estimate I've heard on the cost is about $20,000 if you bought one today. If you had to pay that every five years it really would be outrageous. However. . .

    Battery costs are dropping steadily year-by-year. Tesla estimates that when the first cars need ESU replacement in about 2012, the price should be closer to $12,000. It is also quite possible that improvements in battery technology by then could make it the last replacement ESU the car will ever need.

    Also noted. . . It is possible to extend the life of the ESU depending on your driving habits. You can program the charger to maintain the car at 50% or 90% charge state instead of 100%. The lower charge states increase the life span of the batteries. If you don't drive it heavily, you could leave it on 50% most of the time, then "top it up" to 100% charge the night before taking a trip.

    Finally. . . Tesla's statistics are based on the theory that you'll feel compelled to replace the ESU when its degraded to 80% of its original capacity. Nobody's going to force you to. If you feel you can tolerate the reduced capacity, you could delay the replacement another year or two easily -- while battery costs continue to fall and technology improves further.

    When you add it all up, battery costs are a big deal but there are ways to manage the problem. Maintenance costs are a big deal on a Ferrari too, moreso than you might realize if you've never owned one.
     
  8. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    >Battery costs are dropping steadily year-by-year. Tesla estimates that when the first cars need ESU replacement in about 2012, the price should be closer to $12,000. It is also
    > quite possible that improvements in battery technology by then could make it the last replacement ESU the car will ever need.

    This is a bit off topic but I keep reading on the Tesla blog about people wanting to rush the more inexpensive sedan release.

    What they don't seem to get is that no matter how much of Turner's (or whomever's) money gets thown at getting the car out sooner, it will not help the car's list price. It's the aforementioned drop in battery costs (and raised capability) that contributes to the lower cost White Star. It's gonna take time. Just scan Tesla'a help wanted page. They have a lot of work to get going.

    Or we can all hope for the unlikely senerio where some invester is willing to loose money on each car for an extened period of time!


    e
     
  9. AGR

    AGR Member

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    Its not only price and speed, also what statement does the car make.

    A Tesla Roadster is a small car, it will make a statement that its an electric car, but its small compared to all the other cars that are usually mentioned when talking of the 0 to 60 times. Most of these other cars that do 0 to 60 in the 4 second range have an "overall performance envelope" that is beyond what a Tesla Roadster can do.
     
  10. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    If simply looking at 0-60 and price, the Dodge Viper SRT-10 is another in the running.

    I know someone who came close to buying a Viper then signed up to buy a Tesla Roadster instead.

    The Commuter Cars Tango also offers 0-60 in ~4 at just over $100K, but the non-traditional looks and very cramped seating may keep it off a lot of shopper's lists.
    [​IMG]

    They have been offered for sale since before the Tesla Roadster and have no where near the excitement (or order) volume.
     
  11. Michael

    Michael Member

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    I'm sure looks might have something to do with it, lol.
     
  12. AGR

    AGR Member

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    Vipers, Z06's, F430 are all in the toy department of the transportation spectrum.

    Is an ICE powered monster HP toy more fashionable than a finally good looking electric powered toy. The individual that can afford these toys, has experienced a monster HP "toy" and is ready to move to other toys.

    "I'm responsible now, I traded the Viper for a Tesla Roadster"....."but I kept the 67 big block Corvette I still need a loud, noisy Sunday morning machine, when I don't feel like riding the Harley"
     
  13. Kardax

    Kardax Member

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    That Tango car is an odd creature. I saw the video on their website and the way it takes those turns almost seems to defy physics, but seeing is believing I suppose. Probably the extremely low center of gravity is a factor. I don't think it could clear a speed bump.

    Its biggest selling point is that it'll fit just about anywhere, so parking is easy.

    Its biggest weakness (like most EVs) is its price; it's too small for its price tag, even the planned cheaper production models. The Tesla Roadster gets away with a high price tag just cuz it's so darn cool; people looking for something practical also expect a practical price.

    -Ryan / Kardax
     
  14. tonybelding

    tonybelding Active Member

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    The Tango makes a lot of sense, it just has two things working against it. . . One is its odd appearance -- the "goofy little car" syndrome. The other problem is the company behind it -- under-capitalized, unable to put it into mass production. Which is a problem with many, many electric vehicles of course. As a product, the Tango is more developed and better thought-out than most of them.

    I think if the big car makers had any kind of vision, one of them could buy out Commuter Cars, re-style the Tango a bit, put it into production and begin developing the EV market. But they don't, and they won't, at least for a while. It's still business as usual in the automobile industry.
     
  15. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Another problem with the Tango is that it uses a DC motor. IMHO, DC motors are much less reliable (in the long run) compared to AC motors.
     

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