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Pricing/Option Aftermath: Still buying?

Have your Model S plans changed?


  • Total voters
    156
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I thought deposits went into an Escrow account and collecting interest was not legal. At least that's how Aptera deposits worked. If I plunked down $40k 2-years ago I sure as hell would want to be sure that my deposit was put into an Escrow account so that if Tesla went belly-up for whatever reason I'd be sure to get my money back.
I'm fairly certain you're wrong: $65,215,000 of "Reservation payments" are among Tesla's Current Liabilities on its most recent 10-Q financials. There is no corresponding escrowed asset line. Reservation holders are unsecured creditors of Tesla Motors.
 
I thought deposits went into an Escrow account and collecting interest was not legal. At least that's how Aptera deposits worked. If I plunked down $40k 2-years ago I sure as hell would want to be sure that my deposit was put into an Escrow account so that if Tesla went belly-up for whatever reason I'd be sure to get my money back.
I don't have the contract, but I asked specifically and was told that the deposits were "part of general capital" and not protected in any fashion. If Tesla went belly up, we'd be in the line with every other creditor.
 
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Yes this is also the way it works for European deposits, which is why I was too afraid to put down my €4000 before the DOE loan went through. I know that is an unsecured credit to Tesla. Mine is obviously a lot lower than a Sig deposit, but €4000 is serious money for me.

Cobos
 
I thought deposits went into an Escrow account and collecting interest was not legal. At least that's how Aptera deposits worked. If I plunked down $40k 2-years ago I sure as hell would want to be sure that my deposit was put into an Escrow account so that if Tesla went belly-up for whatever reason I'd be sure to get my money back.

I was saying that early reservation holders forfeited the chance to earn interest themselves by giving all that money to Tesla early on. But others have brought up another great point. Early reservation holders took on all of the risk without a single benefit (other than being a few spots ahead of a current Sig reservation holder who's still going to get his car around the same time given that Sig holders have first dibs).

I'm not even a Sig reservation holder, but it just blows my mind that Tesla didn't do even the slightest thing for its most supporting customers that took on all the upfront risk. I mean seriously, how do any of the Tesla people sit around a table and say "So what about those early Sig reservation holders, shouldn't we do something a little extra for them given that our existence is largely due to them? Nah! I don't think they'll mind. In fact why don't we charge them a little extra for the privilege of having taken on all of that risk!". Like I said, this reflects poorly on Tesla and needs to be fixed. It doesn't make me feel as if I'm dealing with those most scrupulous, if not sensible, company.
 
How do any of the Tesla people sit around a table and say "So what about those early Sig reservation holders, shouldn't we do something a little extra for them given that our existence is largely due to them? Nah! I don't think they'll mind. In fact why don't we charge them a little extra for the privilege of having taken on all of that risk!"
Yep. Well, I don't think it was something done with ill intent. Presumably Elon trusts those folks involved in sales and marketing to make those decisions or he'd have to be a horrible micro manager in an area outside of his engineering expertise. Unfortunately, those folks probably come from backgrounds of car manufacturers that do charge a premium for Signature/Limited editions. However, given the risks and wait time I don't think the Model S Sig is a comparable situation to a Mercedes/BMW/Lexus Sig. Plus, we're talking tens of thousands of Model S sales over the long term so being nice to Sig owners isn't much of an overall margin hit.

I imagine though that the "Sigs took a risk" line of thought may not have really registered to someone coming from a more traditional mindset.
 
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Well, it's done, I downgraded. A wonderfully pleasant woman from Tesla (Naomi) called and said thanks for the email, that they've had numerous inquiries, and that the feedback has been conveyed to management, but that Signature pricing was pretty much set. She said if I downgraded that Tesla will do their very best to fill an empty slot in the general production line equivalent to where I would have been when I first made the reservation. In my case, that should be simple since the #2840 slot should be empty since that was mine before the upgrade. For someone that went straight to Sig, I'm assuming they'll find you an empty slot that's in roughly the right area for when you made the Sig reservation.

She did warn though that if I waited a few months and then decided to downgrade, that I'd be pushed farther back in line behind folks that had already made the downgrade decision, which seemed fair enough. Knowing that, I told her to go ahead and downgrade me now.

I'm sad to not be a Sig holder, but I'm happy that it looks like I'll get something close to my original spot in line.
 
Early reservation holders took on all of the risk without a single benefit (other than being a few spots ahead of a current Sig reservation holder who's still going to get his car around the same time given that Sig holders have first dibs).

Sig holders get:
1) Their cars first. At some point in time, I predict people will try to buy people's slots to get their cars earlier.
2) The very pretty red paint that won't be available to non-Sig cars.
3) An upgraded interior with better leather and more of it.
4) Special badging to identify the car as a Signature, with the potential that the car will be more highly valued as a collector car some number of years down the road.
5) Special treatment at the recent Oct Factory event, and perhaps future events, including first shot at actual test drives, etc.

I don't disagree that it's not worth the additional money to most, but to characterize it as "without a single benefit" is wrong.
 
I don't disagree that it's not worth the additional money to most, but to characterize it as "without a single benefit" is wrong.

No I think you missed my point. Those benefits you mentioned are the same benefits anyone else would get if they called Tesla today to make a reservation. The point is, those that took on all the risk say two years ago on a fledging company still fighting for survival get no benefit over those that would assume little of that risk today. They still have to pay extra for those marginal benefits.
 
Now that you are saving $4,500 by being a non-Sig will you put that towards the SPORT model!?
I thought about it, but no. The sport is only worth maybe 5-6k to me personally and it's a 10k upgrade. Plus, it forces another 5k in purchases I wasn't really looking to get (21" tires and air suspension). Obviously it has a much higher value to others and they'll get it, but for me, my gut says no.
 
I'm sad to not be a Sig holder, but I'm happy that it looks like I'll get something close to my original spot in line.

Happy to hear it worked out for you. I think you made the right choice. Out of curiosity will Tesla give you back the $35,000 difference now? Seems only fair. At least you could earn a little bit of interest on it before the time comes to purchase the car.
 
No I think you missed my point. Those benefits you mentioned are the same benefits anyone else would get if they called Tesla today to make a reservation. The point is, those that took on all the risk say two years ago on a fledging company still fighting for survival get no benefit over those that would assume little of that risk today. They still have to pay extra for those marginal benefits.
What could you possibly give "early" reservers something that wouldn't completely annoy "late" reservers? Wherever you draw the line between "early" and "late", you'll be guaranteed to annoy all of the "late"-but-only-just people.

Those who reserved Signatures early made their choices, without any reasonable expectation that their car or customer experience would be any different than those who reserved a Signature later.
 
Happy to hear it worked out for you. I think you made the right choice. Out of curiosity will Tesla give you back the $35,000 difference now? Seems only fair. At least you could earn a little bit of interest on it before the time comes to purchase the car.
Yes, they asked if I wanted to leave it with them or get a check. No brainer :), even in my ING savings account the $35k will generate something.
 
What could you possibly give "early" reservers something that wouldn't completely annoy "late" reservers? Wherever you draw the line between "early" and "late", you'll be guaranteed to annoy all of the "late"-but-only-just people.

Those who reserved Signatures early made their choices, without any reasonable expectation that their car or customer experience would be any different than those who reserved a Signature later.

I don't know. Make the line the date of the price announcement. That's when they should have announced something special for the early Sig holders, so there would be no confusion. It would have been a nice token of appreciation, and anyone that wants to get a Sig reservation now would understand what they're getting into. So basically you are saying that it was a poor decision for anyone to have gotten a Sig reservation in the past, since there is no benefit over getting one now? As an investment goes, it was a poor one. All risk, no reward.
 
What could you possibly give "early" reservers something that wouldn't completely annoy "late" reservers? Wherever you draw the line between "early" and "late", you'll be guaranteed to annoy all of the "late"-but-only-just people.

Those who reserved Signatures early made their choices, without any reasonable expectation that their car or customer experience would be any different than those who reserved a Signature later.

Early reservers have gotten a few token benefits over the years: RC car, hotwheels car, tshirt, mug, hat. Don't know if Sig early reservers got anything more than the rest of us, other than special time at the Oct factory event. That said, I don't think for the Sig holders that those early benefits were worth the upfront investment for the privilege of paying a penalty.
 
Well us that did get the early reservation spots did get a care package 2 years ago with some Tesla swag (Matchbox Roadster, coffe mug, t-shirt, hat and something else I can't remember), last christmas I think it was we did get a RC Roadster as well. So there has been some small favors but nothing major I dare say. As a Norwegian customer, from the country suppsedly with the most Model S reservations outside US, my problem has been the very slow responses we used to have on any inquieries and lack of ANY Tesla events here related to the Model S.

Cobos
 
What could you possibly give "early" reservers something that wouldn't completely annoy "late" reservers?
Speaking as a "late" Sig reserve, I would have no problem with Tesla offering an amortized discount on the final pricing based on how long ago you reserved.

In contrast, I would have a problem with them offering additional goodies on the vehicle itself. So much so that I would probably consider trying to trade my "late" reserve Sig with an "early" reserve Sig owner (if that was possible) and it would be worth some amount of cash to me.


On a related but different topic, I'd love the option to purchase the "token benefits" that were provided to some of the "early" Sig reserves.