Pricing/Option Aftermath: Still buying?

[WhiteKnight]

I'll never understand why people who made assumptions that turn out to be false are MAD at Tesla? Disappointed? Sure, but angry? I could see if they stated it and took it back, but if you just made an assumption....

That's exactly right! Tesla did not deceive anyone. The people that are upset had expectations that turned out to be unfounded now they're upset.

This is the Free World. Tesla can build whatever they want and charge whatever they want. And we can vote with our wallets and buy it or don't buy it.

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

That's exactly right! Tesla did not deceive anyone. The people that are upset had expectations that turned out to be unfounded now they're upset.

This is the Free World. Tesla can build whatever they want and charge whatever they want. And we can vote with our wallets and buy it or don't buy it.

Amen to that! By saying this, we are not really giving a free pass to Tesla to do whatever they want, but, maligning their pricing/options model based purely on prior expectations that Tesla must almost be altruistic and give a lot of things away for "free" - just to be different or special! - seems strange.

Having said that... I think Tesla did miss a trick or two in not bundling some now-optional features into the standard specs across all configs. A case in point is indeed Xenon headlights - in my opinion, it'd almost be embarrassing for the car owner and for Tesla to have a Model S out on the roads sporting "twentieth-century-tech candle-lit headlamps" indeed! Leather by default less so as it's a more subjective feature.

Acura, for instance, includes (and have, since atleast 2004) Xenon headlights and heated leather seats by default in the TL and has a minimal "tier-like" way of specing out the car (like base w/ navigation system or base w/ AWD and such). I've always viewed BMW as a bit of a "temptress" who baits you with a seemingly-attractively-priced base model but, then almost forces you to cough up a lot to have a halfway decent set of specs in there. Personally, I like the Acura model better.

 

[dsm363]

I agree. I think Tesla did a decent job with the pricing but also feel that the Xenon headlights should have been standard. Maybe they weren't able to hit their $50,000 price point and still make enough of a profit on it to include them as standard. The tech package is fair I think and includes many features I'd want in one package. BMW as you said has a bare bones car then allows you to add $20,000 in non-performance options if you want it fully loaded.

 

[AnOutsider]

Having said that... I think Tesla did miss a trick or two in not bundling some now-optional features into the standard specs across all configs. A case in point is indeed Xenon headlights - in my opinion, it'd almost be embarrassing for the car owner and for Tesla to have a Model S out on the roads sporting "twentieth-century-tech candle-lit headlamps" indeed! Leather by default less so as it's a more subjective feature.

I agree there. We got the LED foglamps, but I honestly expected full LED lighting. Granted, I don't always find LED lights on Audis to be THAT great, but from a power standpoint, don't they consume less?

Acura, for instance, includes (and have, since atleast 2004) Xenon headlights and heated leather seats by default in the TL and has a minimal "tier-like" way of specing out the car (like base w/ navigation system or base w/ AWD and such). I've always viewed BMW as a bit of a "temptress" who baits you with a seemingly-attractively-priced base model but, then almost forces you to cough up a lot to have a halfway decent set of specs in there. Personally, I like the Acura model better.

Me too, but judging by how some are reacting to Tesla's packaging, it's apparent there are those who just want to pick and choose what they want.

 

[Mycroft]

Maybe they weren't able to hit their $50,000 price point and still make enough of a profit on it to include them as standard.

I think that's exactly why they weren't included standard. In my opinion, it's amazing that they were able to stick to that $50k base price and still make any kind of profit on it. That huge battery pack ain't cheap!

 

[qwk]

(I don't use gas savings to offset the EV premium because the battery will need to be replaced at some point, while an ICE normally isn't. Also, while there aren't any oil changes, etc, there will be at least $600/year in maintenance charges for the Model S if it matches the Roadster's maint. cost.)

This I don't understand.

Since your first battery is free, and is warrantied for a minimum of 100k miles, you can absolutely subtract 100k miles of gasoline from the S price.

 

[mpt]

Such a difficult debate; if you buy an ICE, at 100-150k in, the performance is reduced and the emissions are up. The replacement cost of an ICE at 150k has to be comparable to the battery if not more in some cases rendering the debate moot.

 

[JRP3]

Many ICE's are heading towards the scrap yard at 150K anyway.

 

[vfx]

dsm's costing exercise works for any luxury brand. Try it and see.

 

[Tommy]

For those thinking the Model S is not priced competitively, here is a picture of the MSRP of the BMW Active E. To me, the Model S ($57,400) base price compares very favorable to the BMW priced at $59,500. Bigger battery, seats 5, larger storage area, etc. Link to review: ActiveE Mobility: Driving an Electric BMW 1-Series: BMW ActiveE Dosen't Disappoint!

 

[Robert.Boston]

@Tommy: but that only makes the case that "all EVs are over-priced." The key is demonstrating (simply, compellingly) that the "EV premium" is at or below zero. This proof, unfortunately, depends on people doing math; therefore, it is inherently suspect to 95% of the populace.

 

[Tommy]

@Tommy: but that only makes the case that "all EVs are over-priced." The key is demonstrating (simply, compellingly) that the "EV premium" is at or below zero. This proof, unfortunately, depends on people doing math; therefore, it is inherently suspect to 95% of the populace.

Fortunately, our government has made the case for us. The $550 dollar amount for annual fuel costs on the mandated price sticker will light up the proverbial light bulb in some of people's heads; they will do the math and realize it makes economic sense to go EV. Not everyone will, but as gas prices climb, more and more will begin to see the inherent savings an EV can provide.

 

[AnOutsider]

Rightly so though. "Figures never lie, but liars figure". You throw some numbers around, and the average person isn't likely to fully grasp how you came to those numbers, thus leaving them to perhaps believe there's something "sneaky" going on. Doesn't help that many of the numbers being thrown around are based on a lot of assumptions.

 

[Robert.Boston]

People also tend to have incredibly high "implicit discount rates," fancy words to say that "a dollar today is a lot bigger deal than a dollar next year." It's irrational, but models of human behavior that assume full rationality predict behavior poorly.

 

[WhiteKnight]

People also tend to have incredibly high "implicit discount rates," fancy words to say that "a dollar today is a lot bigger deal than a dollar next year." It's irrational, but models of human behavior that assume full rationality predict behavior poorly.

That includes the Efficient Market Hypothesis.

 

[Robert.Boston]

That includes the Efficient Market Hypothesis.

Models that assume that aggregates of people collectively behave rationally aren't too bad, provided you don't drill down to too fine a level. I think Asimov had it right with Seldon's psychohistory: you can predict large-scale behavior of large groups, but any one individual can behave very irrationally. Fortunately, the irrationalities usual cancel out (unless you're the Mule).

 

[WhiteKnight]

Models that assume that aggregates of people collectively behave rationally aren't too bad, provided you don't drill down to too fine a level. I think Asimov had it right with Seldon's psychohistory: you can predict large-scale behavior of large groups, but any one individual can behave very irrationally. Fortunately, the irrationalities usual cancel out (unless you're the Mule).

spoken like a true economist!