TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Privacy policy regarding vehicle data

Discussion in 'Tesla Motors' started by widodh, Feb 23, 2012.

  1. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,797
    Location:
    Middelburg, The Netherlands
    Does anyone know what Tesla's privacy policy is regarding vehicle data of the Roadster and the Model S?

    Both vehicles are/going to be equipped with tracking and they will sent data back to Tesla Motors.

    As a European I'd rather not have my data stored on servers in the USA, I prefer servers in the EU.

    Has there been any statement about how and what they are going to store? Is this data anonymised?

    I'm more then willing to submit data back to Tesla for further research, but I don't want all my rides to be stored at Tesla with the risk of leaking.
     
  2. PV4EV

    PV4EV Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    476
    Location:
    Area 51 / UK
    This is an interesting point. At some point in the future various governments will want to implement a road taxing policy based on your usage of the roads as indicated by GSM, or from onboard data recording, and this certainly applies to EV's as tax regimes wont like the fact you're not paying enough tax.

    What bothers me is that since 2002 most EU cars have by law to record a certain amount event data that can be accessed by the authorities or insurance companies in the event of a serious accident, and certain other scenarios…

    Many car manuals allude to this fact in a very small way with a passing reference to theses 'black box recorders' - usually buried somewhere deep in the manual in a brief sentence on page 321 etc.

    For example, below is a scan from the 2006 manual for an Aston V8 Vantage. This seems to have been pushed through as law without many people realising it, but the authorities will argue that if you don’t do anything wrong then what do you have to fear and besides it could be advantageous to you in the event of a serious accident. But its kinda big-brother monitoring too.

    If you're worried about this level of data recording - run an older vehicle, or wrap foil around the GSM device (!) or do such things as blitz the ECU which is probably illegal etc etc .


    You can read up some information on the US side of EDR's here :-

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_data_recorder



    AMdatarecordingclause-1.jpg
     
  3. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,797
    Location:
    Middelburg, The Netherlands
    I don't have a problem with such data being stored. Like I said, I'd love to submit data back to Tesla for analysis and improvement of their cars.

    I just want to know what the privacy policy is going to be. Is my data being stored on US based servers? And what do they store? For how long?

    Do they record and store all drives I undertake or do they collect the data, process it and remove if afterwards?

    In the current state of Tesla, being a young company, I think they simply store all the data and deal with this later.
     
  4. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2006
    Messages:
    15,860
    Location:
    Stanford, California
    Very good question. Similar questions have come up before. (e.g., Roadster GPS)

    Does Tesla have a privacy policy printed anywhere?
     
  5. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    4,797
    Location:
    Middelburg, The Netherlands
    I didn't find one during my search.

    With the Roadster I don't car that much, but with the Model S being a high-volume car I do care.

    I get that they need data for analysis and improvement. I just want to know what they collect and what they do with it. If I don't like it, I can opt out.
     
  6. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    8,422
    Location:
    Winchester, UK
  7. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    6,094
    Location:
    Redwood Shores, CA
    At the very least, Tesla should make this an explicit opt-in rather than an opt-out. I'd rather explicitly be told (once, at the beginning of my ownership of the car, via some wizard on the touchscreen) as to exactly what data Tesla would be collecting and be given a chance to selectively opt-in for certain forms of data - say, I'd be okay with data on folks buckling in or not but, not okay with where I take my car.
     
  8. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2011
    Messages:
    13,194
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    /\
    This is opt-in on the Roadster. Mine was delivered with the gsm turned off and the Tesla Rep explained to me as he took me through the systems how I could utilize it if I wanted to. (I leave it turned on permanently).

    This from the manual:

     
  9. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2011
    Messages:
    14,111
    Location:
    California
    Yep, me too. I've been trying to figure out why everyone is getting so twisted up about this & was going to find my customer paperwork this evening before responding. I'm pretty sure I initialed a paragraph giving Tesla access. And I'm glad I did.
     
  10. PV4EV

    PV4EV Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2011
    Messages:
    476
    Location:
    Area 51 / UK
    Just checked my own car - GSM is 'ON' and UK cars are, apparently, supplied with this option enabled by default. I do not know whether this changes by territory, or what the actual Tesla Policy is. But I'm kinda glad it is 'on'.
     
  11. MitchL

    MitchL S#945

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    Saratoga, CA
    I'm definitely in favor of sharing performance data with Tesla - the collective info that all the 2012 model S's could provide will definitely be super valuable for future power train development.

    To make it a perfect deal for me, Tesla should:

    - Tell me exactly what is being collected (without weasel words) and how it will be used. For example, I assume that GPS tracks are not uploaded. But, if I knew what it'd be used for, I'd be fine with altitude (from the GPS), attitude/inclination (possibly from the air suspension system, load level (maybe the suspension knows this too?), outside air temperature, whether it's raining or not, sunroof open/closed (and other aerodynamic hints)
    - Allow me to access my own data (in detail) -- yes, I realize we'll likely be able to download logs from our vehicles. Bonus points if they document the format for us.
    - Provide me feedback on how my vehicle is performing, and how I'm doing as a driver (am I being friendly to the battery? Motor?)

    When Tesla reaches "big 3" size, we'll see if we still trust them with our data :).

    /Mitch.
     
  12. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2010
    Messages:
    6,094
    Location:
    Redwood Shores, CA
  13. MitchL

    MitchL S#945

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2011
    Messages:
    183
    Location:
    Saratoga, CA
    I just noticed that!

    I was reading the news stories linked from the iPhone stock app, and for a brief moment, I was asking myself "where have I seen this before?" :)

    /Mitch.
     

Share This Page