"Proactive" 12v battery replacement - good idea or overkill?

[Hiline]

What an interesting topic. If these batteries typically last 3-4 years and Tesla’s insurance covers 4 years, then Tesla needs to replace 12v batteries free of charge (no pun intended) for most cars they sell new. Do other car manufacturers do the same? They usually have longer warranty on new cars.

 

[texas_star_TM3]

What an interesting topic. If these batteries typically last 3-4 years and Tesla’s insurance covers 4 years, then Tesla needs to replace 12v batteries free of charge (no pun intended) for most cars they sell new. Do other car manufacturers do the same? They usually have longer warranty on new cars.

exactly my thoughts. the basic warranty 4yr/50k miles covers the 12V battery (at least until now - and they can't retroactively just change the warranty terms for cars already sold and on the street...) - so if in fact for a majority of cars the 12V is only good for 3-4 yrs - that's HUNDREDS of thousands of cars needing a Mobile Service tech deployment + a new battery. Not cheap at all. Hence I believe that at least the engineers expected the 12V to last 4-5yrs ... I'll be waiting with replacing mine until next year when my car turns 4 and it's out of warranty.

 

[Need]

exactly my thoughts. the basic warranty 4yr/50k miles covers the 12V battery (at least until now - and they can't retroactively just change the warranty terms for cars already sold and on the street...) - so if in fact for a majority of cars the 12V is only good for 3-4 yrs - that's HUNDREDS of thousands of cars needing a Mobile Service tech deployment + a new battery. Not cheap at all. Hence I believe that at least the engineers expected the 12V to last 4-5yrs ... I'll be waiting with replacing mine until next year when my car turns 4 and it's out of warranty.

So I asked my other 2 coworker who got 12v replacement. They had their battery replaced after 3.5 years and around 40k miles. They didn't have to pay for the replacements. If my warning message came up 1 month earlier I didn't have to pay either. My other coworker only has about 17k miles on his M3, and no warning message yet.

I don't think they "design" the battery for last only 3 to 4 years, but I think in reality they probably are (at least for the earlier cars 2018). It is kind of nice that they would replace them free of charge if it is under warranty. They could have said it is a "wear and tear" item and made you pay for it like a brake pad or something. The thing is that the pandemic may have slow this process down quite a bit with a lot of people worked from home for the last 2.5 years. It would help Tesla to push most of the owners past the 4 years warranty mark and Tesla does not have to pay for it.

 

[Theone8181]

So I'm a bit confused why tesla didn't fit an agm battery. Wouldn't that be better for this type of use? (To be clear I mean when the car was first released).

 

[Pkmmte]

I just got the 12V battery replacement warning on my Model 3 a few days ago. Sentry mode, 12V port, and phone charging no longer work.

Tesla confirmed they will be replacing it for free under warranty. July 2019 build with 43k miles.

 

[Flybyglass]

So I'm a bit confused why tesla didn't fit an agm battery. Wouldn't that be better for this type of use? (To be clear I mean when the car was first released).

Cost.

 

[Theone8181]

Cost.

Surely the cost difference in this bulk must be minimal?

 

[stopcrazypp]

Surely the cost difference in this bulk must be minimal?

It is precisely in high volume that even small cost differences matter, and in this case it isn't a small difference either.

For example below (note this size is not the right one for Model 3) just picking one MF style battery vs the same size AGM from the same manufacturer, the MF battery is literally less than half the price (closer to 40%). So even if Tesla has to swap it once under warranty, it'll still be cheaper than an AGM. If the battery can get past the warranty (which it seems some do) then Tesla has saved that money.
Hankook AXS46B24R AGM Starter Battery: Type 057
Hankook MF54551 Starter Battery: Type 057

 

[texas_star_TM3]

It is precisely in high volume that even small cost differences matter, and in this case it isn't a small difference either.

For example below (note this size is not the right one for Model 3) just picking one MF style battery vs the same size AGM from the same manufacturer, the MF battery is literally less than half the price (closer to 40%). So even if Tesla has to swap it once under warranty, it'll still be cheaper than an AGM. If the battery can get past the warranty (which it seems some do) then Tesla has saved that money.
Hankook AXS46B24R AGM Starter Battery: Type 057
Hankook MF54551 Starter Battery: Type 057

not sure if I follow there .... how much is a tow to a service center if a dead 12V strands someones car on the road or away from their house? How much does a single deployment of a Mobile Service Ranger cost Tesla? Add that to the battery cost and an AGM style battery would definitely be the same or cheaper... and lastly: how is customer satisfaction holding up *if* the 12V battery dies within 3yrs?

 

[stopcrazypp]

not sure if I follow there .... how much is a tow to a service center if a dead 12V strands someones car on the road or away from their house? How much does a single deployment of a Mobile Service Ranger cost Tesla? Add that to the battery cost and an AGM style battery would definitely be the same or cheaper... and lastly: how is customer satisfaction holding up *if* the 12V battery dies within 3yrs?

If it's Mobile Ranger it'll cost more, but for regular service, it's only $26 labor, so $111 total ($85 battery), still cheaper than an AGM. Again, Tesla probably designed it so it would get past the warranty period, so for the most part they save that swap.

Most common car battery life cycles is quoted at 3-5 years (with more electronics and app functions might be even less), so although there are people here that seem shocked for some reason, overall I doubt it's as a big impact on customer satisfaction as people make it out to be, especially if it is covered free under warranty.

 

[Bruinfan]

2018 model 3 LR, at 69k miles, 3 yrs 5 mos, car died in my home garage. no warning.
2016 Model S75, at 73k miles, 3 yrs 4 mos, car gave replacement warning, was able to get a service appt within a week.

i set a reminder to replace them at 3 yrs.

 

[dmurphy]

I'm still interested what reset she did- two scroll wheels (soft), two scroll wheels with all doors shut, brakes, and longer press (full vehicle soft) or pulling the connector under the rear seat (hard reboot).

Off topic but I can’t help it. Please repeat after me: “Holding the brake during a reset does absolutely nothing.”

There’s absolutely 100% no difference whatsoever between holding the scroll wheels and doing that magical incantation you call a “full vehicle soft.” Such a thing does not exist.

 

[gearchruncher]

There’s absolutely 100% no difference whatsoever between holding the scroll wheels and doing that magical incantation you call a “full vehicle soft.” Such a thing does not exist.

Tons of info on the internet and TMC says it does. So if it doesn't, I'm just the messenger.

Soft vs Hard Reboot

What is the difference between a hard vs soft reboot? I understand that one is done with the brake pedal pressed and the other just with two scroll wheels pressed. Should a reboot be done after every software update? If so, which type of reboot should be done?

teslamotorsclub.com

Radio issues and spotify question

Hi, Since the last software update, after parking the car overnight, if I choose to listen to a radio station no audio plays. The only way I can restore the audio is to do a full/hard reboot (hold down both steering wheel buttons while holding the brake pedal down). Anyone else had this...

teslamotorsclub.com

How to Reset and Reboot Your Tesla – Complete Instructions

Find out how to reset your Tesla Model S, 3, X or Y. See how to reboot a Tesla (both soft and hard reset options). Unfreeze your Tesla now!

www.findmyelectric.com

Reboot instructions for your Tesla

Your Tesla may require a reboot or hard reset from time to time, this is how you do it.

tesla-info.com

How to Restart Your Tesla, Reboot or Reset Your Frozen Screen

We may all be familiar with the need to reset our PCs or phones. They may freeze or just not operate properly sometimes. Since Tesla is heavily software ba

www.notateslaapp.com

 

[stopcrazypp]

Tons of info on the internet and TMC says it does. So if it doesn't, I'm just the messenger.

Soft vs Hard Reboot

What is the difference between a hard vs soft reboot? I understand that one is done with the brake pedal pressed and the other just with two scroll wheels pressed. Should a reboot be done after every software update? If so, which type of reboot should be done?

teslamotorsclub.com

Radio issues and spotify question

Hi, Since the last software update, after parking the car overnight, if I choose to listen to a radio station no audio plays. The only way I can restore the audio is to do a full/hard reboot (hold down both steering wheel buttons while holding the brake pedal down). Anyone else had this...

teslamotorsclub.com

How to Reset and Reboot Your Tesla – Complete Instructions

Find out how to reset your Tesla Model S, 3, X or Y. See how to reboot a Tesla (both soft and hard reset options). Unfreeze your Tesla now!

www.findmyelectric.com

Reboot instructions for your Tesla

Your Tesla may require a reboot or hard reset from time to time, this is how you do it.

tesla-info.com

How to Restart Your Tesla, Reboot or Reset Your Frozen Screen

We may all be familiar with the need to reset our PCs or phones. They may freeze or just not operate properly sometimes. Since Tesla is heavily software ba

www.notateslaapp.com

I believe there were cases of some reps saying the dual button hard reboot (with brake press), but Tesla's manual does not mention that method.

There is only the power off method (going into menu to power off) mentioned as a hard reboot:
Model 3 Owner's Manual | Tesla

 

[dmurphy]

Tons of info on the internet and TMC says it does. So if it doesn't, I'm just the messenger.

Misinformation spreads fast. I can assure you - I'd bet $5,000 on it - that it does nothing. I've had both Tier 2 & Tier 3 support folks reassure me as such. Shout it from the rooftops - old wives' tale.

 

[Need]

Misinformation spreads fast. I can assure you - I'd bet $5,000 on it - that it does nothing. I've had both Tier 2 & Tier 3 support folks reassure me as such. Shout it from the rooftops - old wives' tale.

It may do nothing "now", but it was instructions from Tesla back then. I called Tesla a few times back in 2017 and 2018 for my Model X and 3. The reset instructions back then were the same. 3 Methods: Hold both buttons for 1st method. Hold both with brake pressed for 2nd. Go to the screen menu and select Power Off, wait like 1 min, and press the brake to power back on for 3rd method. Maybe now they changed the software to not require the brake press and go straight to 2nd method.

 

[FloridaGary]

2018 model 3 LR, at 69k miles, 3 yrs 5 mos, car died in my home garage. no warning.
2016 Model S75, at 73k miles, 3 yrs 4 mos, car gave replacement warning, was able to get a service appt within a week.

i set a reminder to replace them at 3 yrs.

I am surprised that your battery lasted 3 years. When I bought a new 2015 Model S, Tesla Service said the 12v battery is lasting an average of 1-1/2 years. They were right, I went through 2 batteries in 3 years of ownership. My 2018 Model 3 battery was replaced in 2-1/2 years and the Mobile Tech was surprised it lasted that long.

 

[gearchruncher]

I am surprised that your battery lasted 3 years. When I bought a new 2015 Model S, Tesla Service said the 12v battery is lasting an average of 1-1/2 years. They were right, I went through 2 batteries in 3 years of ownership.

This is likely very location dependent, as heat really does impact battery life. My 2017 Model X battery and my 2018 Model 3 battery are both original and fine.

 

[Theone8181]

It is precisely in high volume that even small cost differences matter, and in this case it isn't a small difference either.

For example below (note this size is not the right one for Model 3) just picking one MF style battery vs the same size AGM from the same manufacturer, the MF battery is literally less than half the price (closer to 40%). So even if Tesla has to swap it once under warranty, it'll still be cheaper than an AGM. If the battery can get past the warranty (which it seems some do) then Tesla has saved that money.
Hankook AXS46B24R AGM Starter Battery: Type 057
Hankook MF54551 Starter Battery: Type 057

Fair enough, didn't realise there was that much of a difference in cost.

This is likely very location dependent, as heat really does impact battery life. My 2017 Model X battery and my 2018 Model 3 battery are both original and fine.

There's obviously been these software updates to help, not sure they did the same on the s (although I'd assume they would).

 

[texas_star_TM3]

I am surprised that your battery lasted 3 years. When I bought a new 2015 Model S, Tesla Service said the 12v battery is lasting an average of 1-1/2 years. They were right, I went through 2 batteries in 3 years of ownership. My 2018 Model 3 battery was replaced in 2-1/2 years and the Mobile Tech was surprised it lasted that long.

so Tesla would be deploying 2 ranger visits and $200+ in costs/labor over just 4 years rather than installing a proper battery to begin with? Hard to believe that this is intended by the engineers. A 12V battery definitely should *not* crap out after just 2+ yrs.