Problem with Wi-Fi connection between Model S and Ubiquiti AP AC Pro Access Point

[whitex]

I just did some checks on a test machine (FreeBSD 11.4-RELEASE). It works the way I expected. A failure to resolve (specifically a NXDomain response) does not cause the resolver to try the next configured nameserver. However, if there's a timeout or an ARP failure trying to reach a nameserver, it will try the next configured nameserver. I'm going to wave my hands in the air and claim that most Linux resolvers will do something similar. I've learned through experience (which predates Tesla) to be sure that all the nameservers that could be queried by a host need to return consistent data...to do so otherwise is asking for problems.

A couple minutes of searching led me to an article that states that Windows does something more complex, which might explain differing results.

I don't know what Tesla is using for their client resolver library...I would have guessed it's something that comes with their Linux distribution, but I have no authoritative (haha authoritative DNS get it?) information on that. The behavior that OP described is kinda consistent with my guess but I'm not sure.

Well that was fun.

Bruce.

Interesting. Thanks for testing and posting the details. Good to know that I should expect problems should I choose to VPN to my work from Linux instead of Windows. My work network has DNS servers which resolve internal-only hosts, and my home network has DNS servers which resolve internal-only (to my home) hosts, so when on VPN, I would lose the ability to resolve either my work network hosts or my home network hosts.

 

[Ostrichsak]

I finally evicted Ubiquiti when their latest control software -mandates- that you log in to their servers. Why do they want to know this? What are they doing with this information? What goes on in my LAN is none of anyone's business but mine.

So I tried a Grandstream GWN7630 which has the controller built-in and can handle up to 256 slaves, but the latest firmware is just not ready for Prime Time, and their Support was unresponsive.

I ended up with a (discontinued) Cisco WAP581, which is superb. It is $200 for one AP but that beats all hell out of their Aironet or Catalyst lines which are $500. The WAP581 does what it should and wifi calling finally works. Another candidate was Engenious for $300.

Yikes. A little bit off-topic but I've got a full Ubiquiti line-up I'm getting ready to deploy at my home. USG Pro 4, Unifi Switch, Unifi PoE Switch, Cloud Key 2 and Multiple AC Pro APs. I thought that the Unifi interface on the pro-sumer network would be a welcome upgrade but, reading your posts, I'm not sure that's the case. My previous hardware is a hodgepodge of gear that is multiple decades old in some cases (Cisco switches, etc.) so I was hoping a refresh would bring me forward a far bit with my network capacity and control. Sounds like maybe it might be a step backwards though?

 

[rooter]

I play a Tesla cracker on TV, and have 22 years in enterprise InfoSec, but in real life I'm a real estate developer. I build houses of ICF with concrete interfloor decks and roofs (non-combustible, seismic-safe), and certified by the Intnl PassivHaus Institute.

It is a real problem to get wifi and cell in these concrete structures, on all three floors, and I've done alot of research. First of all I don't trust anyone else's cloud (including Tesla's), so take that for what you will. Second, a security axiom is 'simple is safe' -- smaller attack surface.

I must do something about comms infrastructure in these houses, so my configuration is to have a quality AP, centrally-located on the third and second floor ceilings, each on ethernet to a PoE router/firewall appliance in the first floor equipment room. There is fiber-to-the-homes so an ethernet hardwire direct from the fiber ONT to the router/firewall. No silly internet provider's router/antennae to rent from them, which is likely compromised and would be ineffective here anyway.

The AP on the second floor is configured as master, and the one on the third floor is slaved, so they are coordinated with transparent handoff.

So my homeowners have excellent wifi on all three floors. And when they set their phones to wifi calling, at home excellent reception with transparent handoff. No need for an expensive cell booster like weboost. (wifi calling is inherently IPSec)

As time goes on they can upgrade to an AP that also handles wifi6, bluetooth, Z-Wave, etc if they want. Need NAS or something else? Attach it to the router in the equipment room.

I've been asked what my support model is for this... my support model is that no other developer of 'workforce' housing cares to do this. I provide a notebook for each homeowner describing the comms and (radical) HVAC systems. If they care to read they can maintain their systems. If not, who is washing the feet of 95% of Americans who never update their firmware?

 

[BrokerDon]

IMHO it sure seems like TMC members have had a lot of issues with Ubiquiti hardware. I'm not sure I understand the preference for Ubiquiti vs. other products that "just work" out of the box, probably because I'm not a programmer / network administrator.

What "just works" for our 3,300 sq. ft. home are relatively inexpensive network products:

(1) Linksys MR9000 AC3000 router
(3) Linksys WHW03v1 mesh nodes connected via Cat 5e Gigabit Ethernet
(1) D-LINK DGS-1024D (H/W Ver. D1) 24-port Gigabit Ethernet switch
Cox cable 140 Mbps down / 10 Mbps up
(24) devices connected via:

• Cat 5e Gigabit Ethernet
• 2.4Ghz WiFi
• 5.0Ghz WiFi

Our 2015 P85D+ (with 4G LTE upgrade) is connected to a Linksys WHW03v1 mesh node via 2.4Ghz WiFi. It works great, successfully downloading and installing firmware updates AND the huge navigation map updates too.

When we first got our P85D+ in 2015, it had difficulty connecting to our vintage Apple Airport Express configured as a "range extender" connected via Ethernet. When I switched to Linksys RE7000 "range extenders" connected to my previous Linksys EA7500 router our Tesla's connectivity issues disappeared.

YMMV

Linksys haters gonna hate

 

[rooter]

(Hate Linksys & DLink. Ever cracked one open? Love Netgear for business)

 

[BrokerDon]

(Hate Linksys & DLink. Ever cracked one open? Love Netgear for business)

I stand corrected.

Linksys AND DLink haters gonna hate

 

[john5520]

I play a Tesla cracker on TV, and have 22 years in enterprise InfoSec, but in real life I'm a real estate developer. I build houses of ICF with concrete interfloor decks and roofs (non-combustible, seismic-safe), and certified by the Intnl PassivHaus Institute.

It is a real problem to get wifi and cell in these concrete structures, on all three floors, and I've done alot of research. First of all I don't trust anyone else's cloud (including Tesla's), so take that for what you will. Second, a security axiom is 'simple is safe' -- smaller attack surface.

I must do something about comms infrastructure in these houses, so my configuration is to have a quality AP, centrally-located on the third and second floor ceilings, each on ethernet to a PoE router/firewall appliance in the first floor equipment room. There is fiber-to-the-homes so an ethernet hardwire direct from the fiber ONT to the router/firewall. No silly internet provider's router/antennae to rent from them, which is likely compromised and would be ineffective here anyway.

The AP on the second floor is configured as master, and the one on the third floor is slaved, so they are coordinated with transparent handoff.

So my homeowners have excellent wifi on all three floors. And when they set their phones to wifi calling, at home excellent reception with transparent handoff. No need for an expensive cell booster like weboost. (wifi calling is inherently IPSec)

As time goes on they can upgrade to an AP that also handles wifi6, bluetooth, Z-Wave, etc if they want. Need NAS or something else? Attach it to the router in the equipment room.

I've been asked what my support model is for this... my support model is that no other developer of 'workforce' housing cares to do this. I provide a notebook for each homeowner describing the comms and (radical) HVAC systems. If they care to read they can maintain their systems. If not, who is washing the feet of 95% of Americans who never update their firmware?

Tough to beat hardwired quality APs to a central quality switch or appliance for reliability, upgradability and performance. I've had AT&T gigabit fiber going on 3 years with my TV/Computer hardwired to their gateway/router (Arris BGW210). And it's only because that router has exceeded my expectations 10 fold in terms of wifi performance, that I have not bothered to wire every room with ethernet and install APs where needed.

 

[bmah]

I'm gonna suggest that if people would like to continue discussing general networking issues not having to do with Teslas, to visit this thread and contribute:

Wifi Router chatter

(Originally I was going to write a reply to some posts upthread, but I figured I should try to do the moderator thing instead. )

Bruce.

 

[rooter]

Moderators aren't always right.

This thread is specifically about UBNT equipment, an aspect that would get swamped in a general thread. Oh yeah I put in extra information, but it wasn't for nothing, and it cost me time and effort.

 

[whitex]

Moderators aren't always right.

This thread is specifically about UBNT equipment, an aspect that would get swamped in a general thread. Oh yeah I put in extra information, but it wasn't for nothing, and it cost me time and effort.

This thread is about interoperability between Tesla cars and Ubiquiti gear. Whether or not they connect to the cloud does not affect its capabilities to work with Tesla cars, therefore is completely off topic. Start a new thread in Off Topic section if you want, about how you don't trust having your car connected to Tesla, or how you don't trust that opting out of telemetry on Ubiquiti gear because you see it connecting and checking for updates. All valid phobias, but not relevant to this thread.

 

[.jg.]

I use a cheap TP-Link extender in my garage, to provide connectivitiy for my MS but I found that with this extender or an older no-name extender that the MS could not complete conenctions unless DHCP was handled locally, by the extender. Every other device that I tried (mobile phone, security camera, notebook, etc.) worked with a "vanilla" configuration in which DHCP is handled by the main router - but not the MS. MS connectivitiy also appears to be more reliable if it is not sharing the SSID with other devices. Tesla network connectivity does appear to be a bit fragile/weird.

 

[whitex]

I use a cheap TP-Link extender in my garage, to provide connectivitiy for my MS but I found that with this extender or an older no-name extender that the MS could not complete conenctions unless DHCP was handled locally, by the extender. Every other device that I tried (mobile phone, security camera, notebook, etc.) worked with a "vanilla" configuration in which DHCP is handled by the main router - but not the MS. MS connectivitiy also appears to be more reliable if it is not sharing the SSID with other devices. Tesla network connectivity does appear to be a bit fragile/weird.

Yea, I have 2 Model S, the only way I was able to get them to reliably stay connected was to create a dedicated WiFi SSID for each, not sharing with each other or any other device. MCU1 required a 2.4GHz only network (enabling dual band on that network would cause issues), and MCU2 is fine with dual-band 2.4/5GHz. That was after months of trying to figure out why they would not stay reliably connected, even catching one being connected until the second one connected, then one of them would start going through the infinite WiFi-LTE-WiFi-LTE-... loop. Funny thing, both SSID's for Tesla are actually on the same subnet (dedicated to Tesla, but shared between the 2 SSIDs), so it's something WiFi, not IP relates that's causing the cars to interfere with each other. The hardest part about debugging it was that the issues were not reproducible, striking at random. I setup a script to text me when one of the cars would start reconnecting, so I confirmed many times that it was in fact happening and Tesla MCU reboot did nothing to help, but few hours later all was better, only to get worse again in a day or few days. None of my other WiFi connected devices at home have had that problem, not even cheap $20 IoT devices.

 

[.jg.]

Funny thing, both SSID's for Tesla are actually on the same subnet (dedicated to Tesla, but shared between the 2 SSIDs), so it's something WiFi, not IP relates that's causing the cars to interfere with each other.

Yes - my MS is happy to be in the same subnet as other devices but seems more reliable with it's own SSID. Like you say, that seems to be a WiFi issue.

 

[jdjeff88]

i had a similar problem with the Netgear Orbis. Endless cycle of connects and disconnects after an Orbi firmware update. Tried for many weeks to fix until I added a new access point on a separate subnet. Finally also replaced the Orbi with the Orbi Pro and was able to assign a specific SSID that was isolated from the main network. Also worked. Now have the ASUS XT8s and with no special accommodation and everything just works. To see if it was maybe an improvement on the Tesla side I fired up an old Orbi and nope, still didn’t work. Should have to be (or pretend to be) a network engineer to be able to get your car to connect reliably.

 

[rooter]

i had a similar problem with the Netgear Orbis. Endless cycle of connects and disconnects after an Orbi firmware update. Tried for many weeks to fix until I added a new access point on a separate subnet. Finally also replaced the Orbi with the Orbi Pro and was able to assign a specific SSID that was isolated from the main network. Also worked. Now have the ASUS XT8s and with no special accommodation and everything just works. To see if it was maybe an improvement on the Tesla side I fired up an old Orbi and nope, still didn’t work. Should have to be (or pretend to be) a network engineer to be able to get your car to connect reliably.

I rejected the Orbi's for reasons I can't remember. Maybe cloud-required.

I like Asus but the XT8 is a full router. Maybe it can be put into AP mode but that would be way overkill.

Looking at their AP page it seems they call them "extenders", I guess to communicate to laymen. They don't have any wifi6 yet. For the US the best they have is the RP-AC55, which is incredibly cheap but has mediocre reviews. And it has antennae sprouting out which I can't have for my use-case.

PS - When your car connects to your wireless network it looks for multimedia devices like blu-ray players and streaming TV boxes, using DNLA. Some devices confuse the Tesla causing the Wi-Fi/Bluetooth radios to reset. When the car connects again the cycle repeats.

Isolate your car from your multimedia and other devices by having it connect to a "guest" network on your router (or if your router/AP can do it, a second/third/fourth SSID) and the problem goes away. Make sure your guest network has "intranet" access disabled. (sometimes this means "private" mode enabled)

(and thank goodness for Ignore, whatever whitex said)