Problems using RV camper sites?

[bourgain]

I just got back from a one night stay at a KOA in PA. The wife was away and I wanted to see how “camping mode” would work for me and my dog, sleeping inside my Model 3. It ended up being fine and not too cramped for the dog and me. Certainly more room than business class lay-flat seating on international flights.

When I was trying to check in to the KOA site, the receptionist claimed that I couldn’t use a full-hookup RV site, since (she claimed) it was against PA law. I had never heard about this potential problem. My wife and I had used a full-hookup site in VA with no problem but sleeping in a tent behind the car and using the 30amp outlet for charging.

I explained that I had prepaid for the site. Also, when I booked the site only the more expensive sites were available, which are drive-through for large RVs. After I asked how to get a refund the receptionist called the owner who let me stay, even though I had just been told doing so would be against PA law.

Have other people had problems like this? I guess in the future I’ll have to call in advance to avoid potential unpleasant surprises. Pretty ridiculous since I paid almost $70 to just park my car and use the 30amp charging.

 

[Tam]

...I couldn’t use a full-hookup RV site, since (she claimed) it was against PA law...

My guess is: Originally, the RV hookups are made for real RV and not for a sedan. One problem with booking an RV space for a sedan at that time was: people would keep their engine on and might die because of carbon monoxide.

But today, not all sedans are ICE, so the law needs to be updated for EV.

There are ways to circumvent the obsolete law in the meantime:

1) your nice owner did it by disobeying the law.
2) The fee is converted as "storage space" for your car to park and charge with no people using it. You have to get a taxi to sleep in a hotel while your car charges at the campsite.

 

[ChadS]

I have come to not necessarily accept what campground operators say. I have had campground operators insist:

• They don't have 240V outlets (they did; they were just used to calling them "50 amp" outlets)
• They do have 240V outlets (they didn't, just 120V outlets. I should have asked for 50A instead of 240V)
• Even though the campground was empty, and I'm only there for 2 hours in the middle of the day, that I have to pay for 24-hour access to a "premium" site with water and sewer (all of their sites had 50A outlets, and others were much cheaper)
• That I was "trying to play a game" when I told them KOA had a national policy of charging $10 for outlet access when renting a cabin. They were a KOA site, you'd think they'd know or at least could look up policy, rather than insult a customer
• That my car's 4-prong 14-50 plug (the exact same thing RVs have) was somehow a "different interface" that would "take down" their electrical network. Funny thing was a snowstorm took down the electrical network while I was charging...the guy initially blamed me, but I think he eventually figured out the power was really out everywhere. (The gas truck next to me tried leaving, but came back after finding the nearby gas stations couldn't pump gas)
• That I was illegally stealing electricity from the state, and it was too late to try to pay now, I'd get a ticket or arrested. I explained that I'd come in earlier, talked to the ranger that was on duty at the time, explained that I needed a charge, noted that the governor had ordered all public state facilities to allow charging, but didn't say how much to pay - so the first ranger told me to just charge for free, since it was easier than figuring out how much to charge. The second ranger about blew a gasket, assuming I was lying. She blocked my car with her truck, and said I had to stay until she called the first ranger.

Mind you, most of this was over a decade ago; I hope things are generally better now that the idea isn't completely foreign to everyone. I've also had campground operators just say charging an EV sounded really cool, so go ahead and do it for free. Or that they'd just charge me the dump fee or something reasonable like that.

 

[Deleted member 205258]

Aloha everyone, Steve here tossing my buck-o-5, I'm new to tesla ownership, been camping with an electric vehicle since 15...Campground, parks, places of mass visitors and electricity are starting to mature to having EV's around, if it's on public land= we paid for it, and we're being taxed to power it...Currently we tow a MYPOD camper, and have about 30 adapters for every plug/receptacle on this side of earth. Only had one KOA like ChadS state, we don't have 240v but we have 50 amp...hea that's cool, can I use a 50 amp. we have hit a few campgrounds where the pull through was vaccant, so plugged into the 50amp, and we have a door knob sign that uses dry erasable, telling my number, campsite etc so if someone does show we can move, a few instances, RV'rs were like, how long you need the 50 amp, just a couple hours, yea, plug in, and we are gone before they awake. Campgrounds are becoming accepting to EV owners, plugshare is populating mostly with tesla owners. the MYPOD is a hardshell tent with A/C, a TV and some storage, on a 30 DG night, the wife, the dog and I did fine. Stay safe...

 

[coleAK]

Almost the only places to charge on the road here in AK are campgrounds. In the over 7 years with a Tesla up here my thoughts. In the busy summer season almost all require an advances reservation and charge the full nightly fee (~$50-100). There are a few campgrounds that only allow RVs at RV sites. Both I’ve talked to say it’s a safety issue due to the number of rental RVs up here and the inexperienced drivers driving them. I’ve had problems with some of the run down sites using 30a and the Tesla refusing to charge, I’m guessing grounding issues in their wiring?

 

[Deleted member 205258]

Almost the only places to charge on the road here in AK are campgrounds. In the over 7 years with a Tesla up here my thoughts. In the busy summer season almost all require an advances reservation and charge the full nightly fee (~$50-100). There are a few campgrounds that only allow RVs at RV sites. Both I’ve talked to say it’s a safety issue due to the number of rental RVs up here and the inexperienced drivers driving them. I’ve had problems with some of the run down sites using 30a and the Tesla refusing to charge, I’m guessing grounding issues in their wiring?

W were camped at a RV park, tower had 15/20 AMP, 30, AND 50 AMP receptacles, i plugged into the 30, and a model Y plugged into the 50, that side of the camp kept tripping. my plug warped, inside was good, none of the soldier baked, i got my meter out, and asked the owner if we could investigate. well, someone did some hokey stuff to get 30 and 50 amps out that side, and got a good power droop. me and the model x owner rewired a few of the towers so was not trying to get 50 amp through 12ga wire....

 

[dmurphy]

W were camped at a RV park, tower had 15/20 AMP, 30, AND 50 AMP receptacles, i plugged into the 30, and a model Y plugged into the 50, that side of the camp kept tripping. my plug warped, inside was good, none of the soldier baked, i got my meter out, and asked the owner if we could investigate. well, someone did some hokey stuff to get 30 and 50 amps out that side, and got a good power droop. me and the model x owner rewired a few of the towers so was not trying to get 50 amp through 12ga wire....

Yes - many campgrounds tie the 30a/120V receptacle to one leg of the 50a/240V receptacle.

The lesson here should be - don’t try to use both simultaneously. Bad Things (tm) will happen.

 

[MY-Y]

Yes - many campgrounds tie the 30a/120V receptacle to one leg of the 50a/240V receptacle.

The lesson here should be - don’t try to use both simultaneously. Bad Things (tm) will happen.

That'd be OK with a 80 amp wire. I had no idea they'd do that with a 50 amp wire.

When I'm in a 30 amp site, I often use both the 20 and 30 with no issue. I've never tried a 30 and 50 yet.

 

[dmurphy]

That'd be OK with a 80 amp wire. I had no idea they'd do that with a 50 amp wire.

When I'm in a 30 amp site, I often use both the 20 and 30 with no issue. I've never tried a 30 and 50 yet.

Right, the ASSumption is that your RV would be either a 30a or 50a connection. They never planned for anyone using both.

The 20a NEMA 5-20 receptacle is typically its own circuit. Thought being, you’d use that even when the RV is plugged in.

That’s why if you look in the pedestal, there’s usually a 50a and a 20a breaker. Typically no issue to use 20a + (either 30a or 50a.)

Now here’s a fun fact for you …. In the vast majority of RVs with a 50a connector … almost all the load is on the first hot leg. Typically the second leg is only used for a second A/C unit. Sometimes some other ancillary circuits as well, but they tend to wire it up similar to a 30a unit and just use the second hot leg as “overflow” if you will.

That first hot leg is also where the RV parks wire the 30a receptacle … so typically when there’s an over current situation, it’s the first leg that gets crispy. The second leg is usually never exposed to overcurrent.

 

[MY-Y]

I put in a 4-way switch to allow me to power my 2nd ac from the 30 of a 20A inlet I added. I use the 30 around 20-25 amps and the 20 at 13 amps without issue.

I'll have to keep the 30+50 issue in mind if we charge a Tesla while camping. Sharing s 50 and 30 on a 50A wire has got to be a code violation.

 

[Unclepaul]

Most all campsites are unique, with individual managers that do their best to make the campgrounds profitable to their owners. (Sometimes the owners are also the managers)

When you select a site it will offer services and be priced accordingly. Services may be water, 30 amp, 50 amp, dump, size and location.

Usually not able to plug in both 50 amp and 30 amp with heavy draw on the same pedestal. Most campgrounds have meger amps available and not unusual for them to be overloaded in hot weather.

They were not designed to plug in large volumes of EVs. Managers need to conserve power consumption with heavy usage.

EV owners should be sensitive to the heavy drain their cars can draw when plugging in. Best to consider how long you will be plugged in and how much juice you will need and set your consumption as low as possible to prevent brownouts to your neighboring campers sharing your leg of power.

As time goes on, most campsites will be upgrading their electrical service. Please be willing to work withing their system to make everyone happy campers.

 

[ATPMSD]

I recenlty learned of another reason why we may be denied the use of an outlet at an RV park - anywhere. When the NEC code was updated it mandated GFIC breakers for all outlets in potentially wet locations, such as a garage and certainly outdoors. The RV parks got upset because this meant they would need to install a large number of expensive GFIC breakers. So the code was updated to classify these outlets are “feeder” circuits since, when an RV plugs in, the power goes to a breaker box with GFIC implemented there. Therefore, feeder circuits do not need A GFIC breaker.

The bad news is that, technically, EVs cannot use these outlets. So be careful when using RV outlets, most of the owners have no idea on this point and for us, their ignorance is bliss.

NEC 551.71(F)

 

[smatthew]

I recenlty learned of another reason why we may be denied the use of an outlet at an RV park - anywhere. When the NEC code was updated it mandated GFIC breakers for all outlets in potentially wet locations, such as a garage and certainly outdoors. The RV parks got upset because this meant they would need to install a large number of expensive GFIC breakers. So the code was updated to classify these outlets are “feeder” circuits since, when an RV plugs in, the power goes to a breaker box with GFIC implemented there. Therefore, feeder circuits do not need A GFIC breaker.

The bad news is that, technically, EVs cannot use these outlets. So be careful when using RV outlets, most of the owners have no idea on this point and for us, their ignorance is bliss.

NEC 551.71(F)

Good catch, except modern EVSEs includes a GFCI!

 

[ATPMSD]

Good catch, except modern EVSEs includes a GFCI!

Got thought! That was mentioned but is insufficient. Based on your logic we should not need a GFIC breaker for a 14-50 outlet, but code says we do. The GFIC in the EVSE protects between the EVSE and the car, but there is no protection between the outlet and the EVSE, and that is where one is needed to comply with the code. Or to put it a different way, the RV outlet would no longer be considered a “Feeder” circuit and thus the RV park would need to install a GFIC on the circuit.