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"Project Palladium" = big refresh to Model S/X?

maximizese

Member
Jan 16, 2018
477
454
California
Whatever the changes, hope they can in some way upgrade my 2017 X P100D and 2018 SP100D. If the 250Kw charging issue was the wiring and not battery, couldn't a shop like Rich Rebuilds change it up? I think there's going to be big business in upgrading old cars as lots of people are going to want to keep their free supercharging and just generally want to repair/upgrade their cars instead of buying new ones (because that's the greener thing to do anyway).

I wish it were so as I represent a lot of what you're describing. 19 months ago, we bought a used 2013 S85 from Tesla and would love to keep it on the road as long as possible. I will consider spending a reasonable amount of money on upgrades to expand its utility through the years. I'm excited about the prospects of upgrading the MCU and modem, and I would love a battery upgrade if one was available to enhance range, power, lower Supercharging sessions, and longevity. Keeping vehicles on the road would be the greenest route, though it might be not fit within the profitability model of most auto manufacturers.

I would love to see more 3rd party shops improving older things, but I don't know if there's a customer base to support this. Most people would want "the latest and greatest" and many people would want a warranty attached to their pricy EV.
 

Ostrichsak

Active Member
Sep 6, 2018
3,515
3,549
Colorado, USA
If Tesla is going to develop a new platform that will no doubt be cheaper to manufacture, why would one keep the old more expensive platform around?

This is quite the assumption you're leaping to here. While we all assume (important word here since we don't yet know) that they will announce an innovation that will make battery production less expensive (possibly) it doesn't mean that the new cars moving forward they put it in will be necessarily cheaper. That one aspect may get less expensive to make but what if they put 120 or 130kWh packs in cars? There goes any savings you assume the discovered in production. I think that guessing that the entire version of the new car will be less expensive is quite a reach at this point given the fact that it's the flagship line and will showcase new flagship tech that comes with a price tag.

Everything we've heard so far says that the new Plaid version of the S will quite a bit more expensive which stands to reason as it's more/newer/better tech. Nobody said it will cheaper to make and I also guess that even if the better tech is cheaper to make they'll probably use more of it for more range/power/performance but that's going to come at a premium. You think that the tech they have from nearly ten years ago won't be cheaper to make? Of course it will because they've already done the R&D on all of that. They can use whatever cost savings they've come across recently to drive down the cost on the current Model S too.

I'm not saying that they WILL do this, mind you. I'm saying that they could do this if they felt that they could have an entry-level Model S alongside the new hot rod version and wanted to utilize systems already in place for the current Model S to accomplish this. Some were saying that sales numbers on current Model S/X would plummet if they announced an all-new S/X platform. I'm of the thinking that the "all-new" Model S will ONLY be the Plaid version.

This is how Tesla has historically done things: start with the most expensive option to maximize profit from early adopters who are willing to pay a premium and then slowly release less expensive options over time. Why would they not do this on an all-new Model S? If this all new Model S has a wide body, a few styling updates, a Plaid drive-train capable of 0-60 in 2.1 seconds and 500 miles of range with larger and more efficient battery packs but cost $145k starting out with the price climbing when you add options... who is going to buy one? Probably not as many as you would think when a Performance or Long Range Model S with a few tweaked advancements is half the price. Somewhere in between those figures I think is the reality and I think it makes perfect sense to mirror the current assembly line with slight tweaks for the differences and run them in parallel to gauge interest on selling units based on R&D that has already recouped all of it's initial investment to maximize profits.

This seems the most plausible to me based on how Tesla has operated in the past if past performance is any indicator of future results.
 

Tes La Ferrari

Active Member
Jun 1, 2018
1,122
6,186
Canada
If Tesla is going to develop a new platform that will no doubt be cheaper to manufacture, why would one keep the old more expensive platform around?

well kind of like Apple selling iPhone 4’s after they launched 6’s & 7’s - they just demoted it to the “entry level” model of the iPhone line

so the equivalent would be demoting the current LR to the entry level of the s & x lines and the performance becomes the new big dog.

tooling costs have already been heavily recovered so margins would be super strong even with a price reduction on the LR
 

VPP_fan

New Member
Jun 9, 2020
1
5
USA
Given the that palladium was the metal Tony Stark used in the first version of his power source, the same metal his father Howard used in his much larger power source, perhaps Musk is telling the world that these models will use a (more compact and lighter?) refinement of current Lion technology rather than a revolutionary new technology.
 

henderrj

Member
Jun 16, 2014
986
813
Graham, WA, United States
I don't think Tesla will keep the current model S and X lines running at all. They're going to simply change to the new expense ones. If you want a cheaper one, buy used. Or buy a 3 or a Y. I think Tesla is seriously going to make these their Halo cars again. Expect things to be very expensive! (And high profit.) I wouldn't be surprised to see a high-end closer to 150 k. I also expect the batteries to be very much larger. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 150 kilowatt hour.
 

Ludalicious

Active Member
Feb 22, 2018
1,105
1,197
Vancouver
Im sure not too many folks will be traded in their P100D's for a Ravens ect. Just doesnt make sense when you got so much more incentives included back in the day. Not to mention non Transferable FSD to your new vehicle. Produce A New body style because cheezy wheel arches isn’t going to cut it. Good luck if that's their idea....
 

Watts_Up

Active Member
Mar 4, 2019
3,453
2,353
In a galaxy far, far away
I don't think Tesla will keep the current model S and X lines running at all.
They're going to simply change to the new expense ones. If you want a cheaper one, buy used.
Or buy a 3 or a Y. I think Tesla is seriously going to make these their Halo cars again.
Expect things to be very expensive! (And high profit.) I wouldn't be surprised to see a high-end closer to 150 k.
I also expect the batteries to be very much larger.
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 150 kilowatt hour.
I don't think there will be too much change made to the Model S body.
The Model S shape is perfect and represent the whole Tesla DNA.


There might be a Super Model S 3-motors with an extended wheel base with some Pullman type rear seats, or even a Limo.

But the Model S is quite large for European and Asian countries, and there is room between the Model 3/Y and the Model S/X
for a Model 4 or Model 5 with more luxury than the Model 3/X and a smaller size than the Model S/X.

May be there would be some Model 4/5 2-door Coupe or Convertible?

However, the top priority should be a smaller car, like Tesla 2 (so there will be I'm... 2 S3XY) to compete with the VW ID.3

About the battery, I think

- the 2021 Tesla Model 3/Y SR+ will be 75 kWh and the 2021 Tesla Model 3/Y LR AWD and P will be 100 kWh

- the 2021 Tesla Model S/X LR will be 100 kWh and the 2021 Tesla Model S/X P will be 120 kWh (2-motor) and 150 kWh (3-motor).

- the 2022 Tesla Model 2 SR+ will be 50 kWh and the 2022 Tesla Model 2 LR AWD and P will be 75kWh
 

Ludalicious

Active Member
Feb 22, 2018
1,105
1,197
Vancouver
Take a look inside a P100D raven

Looks like a 2012 S 60..
Cheapest interior ever.

How bad will the new S be?

Ya with the new retrofits for the MCU upgrade and FSD computers along with screens. There really isn't much incentive to upgrade to a vehicle that looks almost 10 years old. Just my opinion but no way am I upgrading my P100DL with new MCU, FSD and screens for a Raven that's just marginally faster. The range of the 100's is more than enough. I get it, they want to always get more range and faster charging. But they killed it with the 100 battery and battery degradation is non existent. They built them too good and now offer 2020 upgrades for these vehicles.... Not the smartest business decision IMO.... Not a chance they will sell nearly as many cars without a body change.
 
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mtndrew1

Active Member
May 12, 2015
1,344
3,753
Gardena, CA
I don't think Tesla will keep the current model S and X lines running at all. They're going to simply change to the new expense ones. If you want a cheaper one, buy used. Or buy a 3 or a Y. I think Tesla is seriously going to make these their Halo cars again. Expect things to be very expensive! (And high profit.) I wouldn't be surprised to see a high-end closer to 150 k. I also expect the batteries to be very much larger. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see 150 kilowatt hour.

Absolutely. The current S/X are super complex to build because Tesla didn’t really know how to build a car when they designed those things. They’re way overbuilt in the wrong ways and are certainly more labor intensive to build than the 3 and Y.

Remember that when Sandy Munro tore apart the original Model 3 in 2018 the body-in-white was an over-engineered disaster that cost too much to build. This was the BIW they designed *after* improving on the S/X build process. The Munro videos on the Y show that Tesla has learned a lot about building a better car for a lower cost with less complexity than the 3.

Where the 3 shined was in electronics simplification and the Y retains this. The S/X use a lot of commodity Mercedes hardware (steering column and harness, switchgear and harnesses, etc).

Not hard to imagine that a BIW redesigned using 3/Y improvements combined with the 3/Y simplified electrical architecture and in-house systems to replace the Mercedes/Continental bits could make a new S/X cheaper to build with better quality.

I expect MSRP to go up, the Plaid to be very expensive with the new batteries, and the less expensive models to retain the existing 18650 packs to keep the existing (cheap) Panasonic battery lines maxed out in Japan. This would allow Tesla to validate and iterate on the new batteries in the new and expensive models without Osborne-ing the volume trims.

Not hard to see increased margins, increased quality, new capabilities, increased efficiency, and a bonkers performance model all introduced with a carefully thought out redesign.

They don’t have the resources or space to keep two lines going for the same products at Fremont.
 

DJP31

Active Member
Aug 30, 2015
1,673
1,082
UK
I must admit I'm now in a right old quandary. I've recently ordered a custom S LR which I'd expect to be delivered sometime in September. It'll deliver quite a few improvements to my current S75D AP2 MCU1 car, which has been faultless.

I've been watching the price/spec changes over the last 12 months or so, and with Tesla now offering in house lease deals on very good terms the numbers stack up nicely. I'm also close to running out of warranty although my current deal runs until March 21.

I don't need any extra range nor performance and much prefer the portrait screen and instrument cluster to the 3/Y set up, so if an interior refresh included 3/Y approach I'd be disappointed.

I tend to agree that any announcement is likely to be late enough in the quarter not to wreck Q3, and I'd hate for the refresh to also come with a $10k price hike. I suppose I could try and push delivery right to the end of Sept and cancel if the grass looks greener.
 

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