Pros and Cons of Owning a Tesla

[SSonnentag]

Could we get a copy of your finalized pros and cons list? I might be able to make some good use of it too.

 

[whitex]

I appreciate this insight (just bought a 75D, don't have it yet) as I have always tended to ignore any cons in general (justifying it by convincing myself that the pros outweigh the cons).

It appears you have also done the same considering you've owned Tesla's for 6 years now! Its good to see both sides. Thanks for this.

I have in fact, at first, thought of Tesla OTA as a pro. Over 6 years of experience with Tesla OTA however changed my mind for reasons stated in my post. I do believe that OTA for cars can be done right - it's just that nobody has done it yet (not many cars have OTA at all today, even the ones which do have limited capabilities due to various, often non-technical reasons).

 

[darxsys]

I have in fact, at first, thought of Tesla OTA as a pro. Over 6 years of experience with Tesla OTA however changed my mind for reasons stated in my post. I do believe that OTA for cars can be done right - it's just that nobody has done it yet (not many cars have OTA at all today, even the ones which do have limited capabilities due to various, often non-technical reasons).

You are super right, I don’t know why some people here don’t agree with your responses.

Software is hard. Tesla, I guess, doesn’t have resources and money to have an extensive test infrastructure and it’s showing. Even companies like Microsoft that are a) software specialists and b) have basically infinite cash, struggle and ship bad products occasionally. Tesla really needs to take this problem more seriously, because a bug in the car is potentially a lot more dangerous than my PC randomly rebooting. Just ask Boeing about that. That’s why OTA updates scare me as much as they delight me.

 

[Jsvette56]

I've bought 5 Tesla cars. Only the first (early 2013 model) had problems which required 2 motor replacements due to noise. Each has been rattle free, each had good fit and finish, none required trips to the service center to fix a defect.

On the other hand I have had issues with delivery dates missed, long delays in getting parts for repairs, expensive body repair work, hard to get Tesla to respond via email or phone.

Tesla is 21st century technology and all the ICE cars are 19th and 20th century technology. And I think Elon Musk is correct when he stated that the 2012 Tesla is still better than any other car on the road even after 7 years of EV innovation by all the other car manufacturers.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

I think you need to tell them the honest truth that burning coal is not a pro, just as smoking cigarettes is not a pro.

And it would turn into a climate change debate and they'd never stick around for the Tesla discussion. There are a lot of truths I could try to tell people, but around here, I'll be much better off just trying to show them the awesomeness of Tesla, and dispel some of the lies they've heard and read.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

To be fair, you did ask for cons, and now that you have one guy's perspective, you find it unpalatable drivel. I can tell you that his experience is nowhere near unique. There are people here who expect a minimum from a $50K+ car and from the company behind it. Customer Service, the lack thereof, will sink this company as it has sunk others before it. The company lost $700 million last quarter. Alienating a customer base that has $100K to spend on a car--a customer base that is counted upon to showcase the brand to potential buyers-- is guaranteed to enrich Mercedez-Benz the day they deliver a competitor to what ever Tesla promises. "Great car, but if you need service for something or for something they broke, you are screwed." Yeah, like that attracts customers.

If you want cons like the usual "No cup holders", "Rattles galore", and "Not enough USB ports for the kids", and maybe "I wish they had a better light in the trunk", but "Great voice commands!", then here you go.

The thing is, I'm obviously trying to bring people into the Tesla family. If I were to state all those cons WhiteX listed, I might as well just create a poster with pictures of Tesla cars on fire and say - "yea, everything you've heard on the news about Tesla is true, but they're GREAT cars." Or I could just ask Mark Spiegel to come talk to them. SMH

"Alienating a customer base that has $100K to spend on a car--a customer base that is counted upon to showcase the brand to potential buyers"

92% of Tesla owners stated they would definitely buy another Tesla. So, while WhiteX is not the only person to have a bad experience with Tesla, he's definitely in the minority. I'm trying to educate people are the basic advantages and disadvantages of owning an EV (and primarily Tesla). Why in God's earth would I want to tell people about the issues about 8% of owners have experienced? Many people have experienced poor panel gaps - let me add that to the list. I'm sure when people tell them about their Fords, they tell them all about the constant recalls Ford has. Geees.

 

[darxsys]

The thing is, I'm obviously trying to bring people into the Tesla family. If I were to state all those cons WhiteX listed, I might as well just create a poster with pictures of Tesla cars on fire and say - "yea, everything you've heard on the news about Tesla is true, but they're GREAT cars." Or I could just ask Mark Spiegel to come talk to them. SMH

"Alienating a customer base that has $100K to spend on a car--a customer base that is counted upon to showcase the brand to potential buyers"

92% of Tesla owners stated they would definitely buy another Tesla. So, while WhiteX is not the only person to have a bad experience with Tesla, he's definitely in the minority. I'm trying to educate people are the basic advantages and disadvantages of owning an EV (and primarily Tesla). Why in God's earth would I want to tell people about the issues about 8% of owners have experienced? Many people have experienced poor panel gaps - let me add that to the list. I'm sure when people tell them about their Fords, they tell them all about the constant recalls Ford has. Geees.

First of all, based on your response, you’ve mislead everyone here. You don’t actually want cons, you want a communist propaganda pamphlet about how great the Tesla car is.

Second of all, not telling people about possible downsides of a $100k product you’re trying to talk them into buying is lying in the best case. Just horrible.

Thirdly, where the hell do you pull this data from?

Damn I feel bad about even coming to this thread, you are not a person I want to be involved with, it seems.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

First of all, based on your response, you’ve mislead everyone here. You don’t actually want cons, you want a communist propaganda pamphlet about how great the Tesla car is.

Second of all, not telling people about possible downsides of a $100k product you’re trying to talk them into buying is lying in the best case. Just horrible.

Thirdly, where the hell do you pull this data from?

Damn I feel bad about even coming to this thread, you are not a person I want to be involved with, it seems.

Dude - PLEASE go post on another thread. If you don't like what we're discussing here, that's fine - just ignore the thread. But, you've basically ruined a thread I'm trying to use to build a realistic list that the 92% who like their Tesla feel are the pros and cons (we all now there are some basic problems with electric cars even if Tesla built perfect cars - that's what I'm looking for - not the specific reliability issues some have experienced). My goal is NOT to destroy Tesla with my efforts. I will definitely try to present a realistic and honest picture of what it's like to own and drive a Tesla - but I'm not going to present the bitter opinions of the 8% that had a TERRIBLE experience with their Tesla. I respect that you hate Tesla now and want to post negatively any chance you can, but please take it to another thread (or website).

Either way, can you please refrain from posting so I can begin to re-read this thread and try to assemble the list from real posts?

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

Could we get a copy of your finalized pros and cons list? I might be able to make some good use of it too.

Will do.

 

[neroden]

Everyone, I am creating some material which will be used at our Tesla "show and tell" events to help teach people in South Georgia about Tesla (you'd be shocked how little people know about Tesla here). One of the docs I am creating is the Pros and Cons of owning a Tesla. I have several listed, but want to make sure my list is as complete as possible on both sides. So, if you have a moment, please chime in on the things you think should be presented to those totally unaware of Tesla vehicles (other than the stupidity they see on the internet).

Cons:
#1 Tesla is very hard to get on the phone, unreliable in responding to email, difficult to get in chat. Your issue will usually not get passed from one employee to the next. Expect to spend a LOT of time nagging them if you have ANY small problem.
#2 They break things in software updates and don't fix them for 3+ years. It's impossible to file a bug report.

Pros:
So many I cannot mention them all. You will never want to drive a gas car again. It is just plain better to drive, like night and day.

 

[Big Toys]

The thing is, I'm obviously trying to bring people into the Tesla family. If I were to state all those cons WhiteX listed, I might as well just create a poster with pictures of Tesla cars on fire and say - "yea, everything you've heard on the news about Tesla is true, but they're GREAT cars." Or I could just ask Mark Spiegel to come talk to them. SMH

"Alienating a customer base that has $100K to spend on a car--a customer base that is counted upon to showcase the brand to potential buyers"

92% of Tesla owners stated they would definitely buy another Tesla. So, while WhiteX is not the only person to have a bad experience with Tesla, he's definitely in the minority. I'm trying to educate people are the basic advantages and disadvantages of owning an EV (and primarily Tesla). Why in God's earth would I want to tell people about the issues about 8% of owners have experienced? Many people have experienced poor panel gaps - let me add that to the list. I'm sure when people tell them about their Fords, they tell them all about the constant recalls Ford has. Geees.

No, whiteX's experience is not the minority, and bad CS is not the exception. CS is not a priority for Tesla, because they already have your money and they are the only EV game in town, for now. My nearest service center is 1 hour away but it sucks, so the next nearest is 2 hours away. I have to take a day off from work to deliver it because there are no Saturdays available, at all. That's $1000 I gotta pay someone to cover my work spot, just so I can get a screen with no bubbles, among others things. So I live with what was delivered to me 6 months ago. OTOH, my wife is treated like a queen at MB when she calls and goes for service. Despite what Musk, or you, thinks of this rolling beta app, it is a machine that will eventually break due to Tesla's poor software/hardware/failed car component, or even by your own doing. We gather here to crab about it, but I can assure you there are others not on this forum who have the same experiences and same second thoughts as we express here. This is a company-killer. I'd like to see my stock grow in value, as well as to have my car company still in business 2-5 years from now.

I expect misaligned panels from Ford. I had a Miata back in the day that was terrible. I can tell you that MB literally pulled my wife's car apart, that day, to fix some *very* minor cosmetic issue caused by a service tech. I expect that from a premium car company, and it is that service that keeps a loyal customer coming back for more. Musk keeps telling us he makes the best cars available. Yep, it rides great, the voice commands work, and we all love the acceleration. I love to plug it in at night. I hate having to stop to charge on a long trip made even longer. I hope to never have to drive an ICE car again, and hate driving them now. I love going to the gas station to wash my windshield and to buy a lottery ticket. Now, fix the rest of the experience and you'll have a winner.

 

[Mediocrates]

Dude - PLEASE go post on another thread. If you don't like what we're discussing here, that's fine - just ignore the thread. But, you've basically ruined a thread I'm trying to use to build a realistic list that the 92% who like their Tesla feel are the pros and cons (we all now there are some basic problems with electric cars even if Tesla built perfect cars - that's what I'm looking for - not the specific reliability issues some have experienced). My goal is NOT to destroy Tesla with my efforts. I will definitely try to present a realistic and honest picture of what it's like to own and drive a Tesla - but I'm not going to present the bitter opinions of the 8% that had a TERRIBLE experience with their Tesla. I respect that you hate Tesla now and want to post negatively any chance you can, but please take it to another thread (or website).

Either way, can you please refrain from posting so I can begin to re-read this thread and try to assemble the list from real posts?

Let's ask a few more owners...

Tesla slips several spots in Consumer Reports reliability ranking

 

[No2DinosaurFuel]

Did anyone mentioned cost of insurance ad a con? Early on, insurance was cheap, now I think the insurance companies have caught on to the cost of repairs for Tesla and have increase premiums. Mine have been increasing 15% every 6 months for thr pass 3 renewal and I have called around and all of the other companies are the same or higher.

 

[SoGA Fan Club]

Did anyone mentioned cost of insurance ad a con? Early on, insurance was cheap, now I think the insurance companies have caught on to the cost of repairs for Tesla and have increase premiums. Mine have been increasing 15% every 6 months for thr pass 3 renewal and I have called around and all of the other companies are the same or higher.

I just switched to Progressive. I have always been with USAA and my premiums increased across the board so I decided to check with Progressive and I would up saving about 40%.

I also did some comparisons of my Model S to other manufacturer's similar cars just to see if it was Tesla that was expensive or just premium cars in general. I found basically no difference in the insurance cost when compared to the BMW 7-Series, MB S-Class, etc. We were even considering getting a 3 or 4 year old Audi Q7 to compliment our S (since I can't justify $85k for a Model X) and the Q7 insurance was so expensive I nixed the idea.

 

[OrbiterTI4]

Did anyone mentioned cost of insurance ad a con? Early on, insurance was cheap, now I think the insurance companies have caught on to the cost of repairs for Tesla and have increase premiums. Mine have been increasing 15% every 6 months for thr pass 3 renewal and I have called around and all of the other companies are the same or higher.

Location and company dependent. When I replaced my 2009 Chevy Malibu with the 2015 Model S in MO, our 6mo premium only increased $25....Move to TX and for the same coverage for the S alone is double the previous combined premium.

 

[Brass Guy]

Gas Savings – The EPA tests vehicles to determine the MPG fuel rating for a particular vehicle. This rating is somewhat difficult for electric cars since there is no “gallon”. So, the EPA uses MPGe – which basically means the equivalent number of miles an electric car can go for the charging cost of one gallon of gasoline. The Model 3, Model S, and Model X have a MPGe rating of 134, 102, and 85 respectively. No matter what kind of gas vehicle you currently drive, you will save money in a Tesla.

This is a little off. It's not the charging cost vs the cost of one gallon of gasoline, it's actually how far you can go with the amount of energy stored in gasoline. According to the EPA, a gallon of gasoline contains 33.7 kWh. So if you get 3 miles per kWh, your MPGe is 100.1.

To calculate costs, you would really need to figure the cost per mile. So how far can you go in an ICE on a gallon of gas (pick a car), and how far can your EV go on 33.7kWh, and how much do each cost where you are. (I'm currently near cost breaking even with a 30 MPG vehicle.) You should post examples using a few vehicles and using your local prices if you want to compare driving costs.

You might consider this paragraph from www.fueleconomy.gov:
Energy Efficient. EVs convert about 59%–62% of the electrical energy from the grid to power at the wheels. Conventional gasoline vehicles only convert about 17%–21% of the energy stored in gasoline to power at the wheels.

I'm not sure about that 59-62 number, I thought it was higher. But gasoline cars mostly make heat rather than motion, even the "efficient" ones.

Pro: Versatile energy source. ICEs get fuel from one place - petroleum. (In some cases with Ethanol added.) EVs can be charged by petroleum, solar, wind, hydro, natural gas, coal, nuclear... however electricity can be generated. You could conceivably charge it from an exercise bike with a generator, but that'd be a LOT of work.

As far as batteries and environment stuff, I understand you won't want to get into it but at least arm yourself for if the subject arises. The amount of lithium in a battery is actually very small, they are not called lithium ion batteries because of it's highest material content; rather a small component that gives it its characteristics.
Tesla declared a long time ago that they were going to recycle batteries; there's no need to put this valuable resource in land fill. I don't know if they've started this program, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of Tesla batteries are still with their original vehicle.

 

[tranzndance]

I just switched to Progressive. I have always been with USAA and my premiums increased across the board so I decided to check with Progressive and I would up saving about 40%.

I also did some comparisons of my Model S to other manufacturer's similar cars just to see if it was Tesla that was expensive or just premium cars in general. I found basically no difference in the insurance cost when compared to the BMW 7-Series, MB S-Class, etc. We were even considering getting a 3 or 4 year old Audi Q7 to compliment our S (since I can't justify $85k for a Model X) and the Q7 insurance was so expensive I nixed the idea.

Progressive charges slightly less for my MS than my husband's decade old Audi. Maybe the safer aspects of the Tesla reduce bodily injury costs.

 

[Cheburashka]

Another con is rattles and interior build quality.

Most S and X I have been in (including mine) have totally different and weird rattles. Tesla used to fix them so it wasn't a huge deal but now apparently they refuse to.

Elon promised some sort of app to diagnose rattles but of course it never happened just like 50% of the other crap he spews on Twitter.

 

[Brass Guy]

Another con is rattles and interior build quality.

Most S and X I have been in (including mine) have totally different and weird rattles. Tesla used to fix them so it wasn't a huge deal but now apparently they refuse to.

Elon promised some sort of app to diagnose rattles but of course it never happened just like 50% of the other crap he spews on Twitter.

Mine has one occasional rattle: the grid in the back hatch that probably has speakers if you have the upgraded sound. I've had that back panel off a few times, so could be my fault. My car is nearly always quiet. Coming up on 147k miles. I did have a loaner a few months ago that had distracting rattles though; so I guess it's hit or miss.

 

[Cheburashka]

Mine has one occasional rattle: the grid in the back hatch that probably has speakers if you have the upgraded sound. I've had that back panel off a few times, so could be my fault. My car is nearly always quiet. Coming up on 147k miles. I did have a loaner a few months ago that had distracting rattles though; so I guess it's hit or miss.

I'm at 35K miles in a refresh S... I also have a rattle (and a sqeak sometimes) in the back although I never touched or disassembled anything. Also, I do NOT have the premium audio.

My dash is also starting to rattle sometimes.

I owned a Chevy Spark also (just did the lease return on that) and had zero squeaks or rattles in 45K miles.

I think we can all agree that this is completely unacceptable in a car of this price range.

It's definitely a compromise we are making in order to drive the most advanced car available.