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PSA: Home charging Install for 2014 tax credit

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by chickensevil, Jan 15, 2015.

  1. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    Most people are well aware of the 7,500 federal tax credit but what most might not know about is that congress extended (at the last minute almost) the tax credit for paying for the installation of a home charging device. (This includes getting a 14-50 plug installed in your house up through the HPWC or some other type of EVSE.

    You get 30% of the cost of installation back as a credit (works very much like the 7,500 credit, although from what I was reading this one IS subject to AMT affects) and it caps at 1,000$

    Basically if your equipment and installation costs exceeded 3,334$ you will get the full credit.

    If you own a business you get the same credit for the installation of the until at your business, and the cap is 30k.

    So don't forget to ask/look for the right forms to claim this credit because it was approved within the last couple weeks of 2014 and I wouldn't be surprised if your tax professional doesnt think to ask you about it.
     
  2. robby

    robby Member

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  3. MikeC

    MikeC Active Member

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    I thought it didn't count for a 14-50 because it's just a plug and the charger is in the car? I wouldn't mind being wrong.
     
  4. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    They use the term "EVSE" so any equipment that enables the servicing of electricity to your car counts. Otherwise no one would get a credit because the charger is on board for everyone.

    I also have some friends who have gotten the credit in previous years who only installed a 14-50 for whatever that is worth. Feel free to ask an expert before you file though, since I am NOT a CPA.

    Thanks for sharing the form!
     
  5. Ampster

    Ampster Member

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    As prevoius poster said the Charger is always in the car. I would consider a 14-50 part of a charging system. If I was having an electrician do it for me I would make sure he included those words in his invoice.
     
  6. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

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    I know this is somewhat splitting hairs but...

    The relevant part of the tax code is 30c which doesn't use the term Electrical Vehicle Supply Equipment (EVSE) anywhere. Nor is it used in the form for the credit (8911). EVSE is a term from the National Electrical Code and as far as I know has never been used by the IRS or the tax code. Rather the tax code says the following (179A (d)(3)(B)):

    In my opinion a NEMA 14-50R falls into a potential grey area. I believe the law says that the property has to be used exclusively for recharging of motor vehicles (though it isn't explicit about this so you could try and argue that but I think that goes against the purpose of the law). Obviously a 14-50 could be used for other purposes. If you use the 14-50 exclusively for charging your car in the location that you've installed it then I don't think you have anything to worry about and should just take the credit. I doubt the IRS would argue with you over it. However, if you used the 14-50 to also plug in an RV or something like that I'd avoid taking the credit. Even in this case you could probably get away with it, since it's not like the IRS would know exactly what you're using it for. But you should be prepared to defend this.

    But in general I agree with what you're saying. Equipment for charging your car even if it isn't a hard wired EVSE like the HPWC is probably fine for taking the credit.
     
  7. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    #7 yobigd20, Jan 16, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2015
    I tried to do this last year but it's irrelevant. If I recall it was either because that credit is for businesses only or their is s clause in there that causes it not to be applicable if you already claim the $7500. It's been a while, I can't remember. I doubt this is something you can claim.

    Edit: I think the reason this don't apply to all of us is because of line 17, the tentative minimum tax. Even if you don't use AMT I think you are forced to calculate this tentative minimum tax anyway which for the majority of us cancels it out and makes the entire deduction moot. I originally thought I could claim both the $7500 and my charging system too until my tax accountant "educated me" on this exact issue with form 8911.
     
  8. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    Well, everyone's tax situation is different, so it might be worth at least seeing if you can get something from it. Worst that happens is it doesn't apply, but I would rather people at least know to ask their tax guy about it, than to pass up on the chance of up to a 1,000$ credit.
     
  9. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    That is true. That's also why I tried. I just wanted to make people aware so they don't get their hopes up and count on it.
     
  10. gg_got_a_tesla

    gg_got_a_tesla Model S: VIN P65513, Model 3 Res Holder

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    Wonder if the cost of converting a UMC to a JESLA - to charge a non-Tesla from an existing 10-30 outlet - would be covered?! That's probably stretching things a bit. :)
     
  11. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    I have spoken with people who got the credit in previous years. So I know it is possible for it to apply to you. The business section is specifically different in the wording.

    Hrmmm sorry, I think I was mixing up the things I was reading up on for wording. Thank you for the correction. The wording of both sections strongly implies that if you are installing property where the car is to be recharged then it would qualify. So if I specifically installed a 14-50 outlet in my garage to charge my car in 2014 then it would qualify. How many people would have both purchased and EV last year AND an RV in order for that distinction to come up? If you already had an RV, chances are, you installed the outlet back when you got it so you wouldn't qualify for something this year. I think the only point where you might run into trouble is if the outlet was installed in like a utility closet or something and not in the garage. But from all the wording I see, if it was put in the garage and was for the purpose of dispensing electricity to recharge your car, then it should be a qualified property. Otherwise, why would they even bother to make the distinction of "only if the property is located at the point where the motor vehicles are recharged." Sounds like that is the key qualifier here, more than anything else.

    I put an outlet in my garage to charge a car... sure I happen to have an RV, but the outlet was installed at the point where motor vehicles are recharged.

    In any case, I got an HPWC and it is really hard to argue that is to be used for anything OTHER than a Tesla. :D

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ah, fair enough. I guess this is also similar to the 7,500 credit then. There is a chance that you don't get the credit (or only a partial credit) if you somehow didn't owe at least 7,500 in taxes for 2014. Especially for people who may already be in retirement. Their tax exposure might be small. This is likely a bit tougher than the 7,500 to get it to apply for your situation. Hopefully this thread helps at least one person who otherwise wouldn't have known to ask about it, get the credit applied to them!
     
  12. MrClown

    MrClown Autosteer Beta Tester

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    Is the cost of the HPWC itself included or just the installation costs?
     
  13. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    From my understanding of the law, it is both. In a worst case, you would lose the installation costs and just count equipment. But keep in mind that the electrician (if you paid for one) bought wiring, screws, mounts, etc, and that would count as part of the property cost. The majority of my installation cost was paying for the long run of wire and the new metering unit I had to put on the house. It doesn't specify in the law... the only thing I see is relating to "clean-fuel vehicle property" installation including the costs to install said modification (as in if you were modifying your gas car to burn natural gas)... But I don't see any mention either direction regarding installation of the refueling property itself.
     
  14. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

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    I realize it's a nit pick that probably doesn't apply to most people here. I'd guess that if you have an EV and take this credit that the IRS wouldn't look too much into it. But the credit doesn't require EV ownership. Imagine the following scenario. A family member has an EV. You buy an RV. You install a NEMA 14-50R in your garage. You use the 14-50R to plug in the RV. When your family member comes over to visit they use the 14-50R to charge their EV. Is that 14-50R qualified property for the tax credit? I think this is clearly a grey area.

    I think the "only if the property is located at the point where the motor vehicles are recharged" bit is there to prevent someone installing something that's dual use like a 14-50R in a location that is obviously impossible to charge an EV with it from claiming the credit. I don't think it means if you happen to install a 14-50R in any garage it automatically qualifies (not that I'm saying you're saying that either).

    Given the small cost of a 14-50R install in a garage in most cases. I personally wouldn't bother taking a credit that falls in a grey area like this. Like I said before you might get away with it with no question at all, but you might also have to defend it. Defending it in my opinion probably wouldn't be worth the amount of the credit.
     
  15. CSFTN

    CSFTN Member

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    Next question: if you bought dual chargers for your car and installed a HPWC, can you get the credit for both? Explicitly:
    $750 for HPWC
    $1500 for optional high rate charger not a normal part of the car
    $ xx for cost of installation of HPWC
    (lastly, if your electrician felt need to run a whole new subpanel, that too??)
     
  16. breser

    breser AutoPilot Nostradamus

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    That is in my opinion really pushing your luck. For one thing you're already getting a $7,500 credit on the purchase of the vehicle.
     
  17. chickensevil

    chickensevil Active Member

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    It caps at 1k and is 30% of the total cost. So as soon as you hit $3,334 you already get the full credit and there is no point in trying to push it even further.
     
  18. robby

    robby Member

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    Yeah, but if installation is ~$1000 you're still within the cap. I'd be curious if anybody has a firm answer to CSFTN's question -- it might be enough to make me add dual chargers.
     
  19. cpa

    cpa Member

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    Hey, guys, read the law:

    For purposes of this section, the term “qualified alternative fuel vehicle refueling property” has the same meaning as the term “qualified clean-fuel vehicle refueling property” would have under section 179A if—
    (1) paragraph (1) of section 179A (d) did not apply to property installed on property which is used as the principal residence (within the meaning of section 121) of the taxpayer, and
    (2) only the following were treated as clean-burning fuels for purposes of section 179A (d): (A) Any fuel at least 85 percent of the volume of which consists of one or more of the following: ethanol, natural gas, compressed natural gas, liquified natural gas, liquefied petroleum gas, or hydrogen.
    (B) Any mixture— (i) which consists of two or more of the following: biodiesel (as defined in section 40A (d)(1)), diesel fuel (as defined in section 4083 (a)(3)), or kerosene, and
    (ii) at least 20 percent of the volume of which consists of biodiesel (as so defined) determined without regard to any kerosene in such mixture.

    (C) Electricity.

    It must be installed ON property qualified as your personal residence, and it refers to Code Section 121 (which provides for the 250/500K exclusion on the gain on the sale of one's personal residence.) So, you get to figure the credit on whatever equipment and installation that you paid for to charge your electric vehicle at your personal residence, period.

    Most income tax litigation does not focus on whether the taxpayer has receipts or other documentation supporting the transaction that lowered his tax. Most litigation focuses on the facts and circumstances in that particular case. An installation of a charging plug after ordering a BEV would be prima facie evidence that it was installed for the car. An installation of a charging plug six months before ordering a BEV or without ever buying one, less likely. And, even with the best of intentions of purchasing a BEV that falls through after you installed the EVSE and received the credit, you must recapture the credit in the year that the deal falls through.

    But seriously, most people who buy a Tesla and install EVSE to charge in the same taxable year will not be able to avail themselves of the 30C credit because the credit cannot lower your "tentative alternative minimum tax." The $7,500 tax credit is allowed to reduce your AMT, so most folks will have a "TMT" higher than their regular tax before the Section 30C EVSE credit. Granted, there are those in the 39.6% tax bracket with little or no preference items, so they don't have an AMT problem, and will be able to avail themselves of the EVSE credit as well.
     
  20. JPP

    JPP Active Member

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    #20 JPP, Jan 17, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2015
    FWIW, in 2013 I installed 2 NEMA 14-50 receptacles. My tax attorney had no problem claiming the deduction, but, as noted above, after the AMT hit we saw very little benefit.
     

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