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PSA: Removing Seatbelt disables autopilot and slows car down

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Hazelwood, Jun 25, 2018.

  1. Hazelwood

    Hazelwood Member

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    Learned something new today, accidentally. Was driving in stop and go traffic when I noticed my seatbelt was locked (wouldn't release in and out). I decided I'd unlatch the seatbelt, let it back in to free it up, then relatch. To my surprise the car freaked out, disabled auto steer and said something about reducing speed. I couldnt read the message as I was busy stomping in the accelerator to prevent my car from near stopping (getting rear ended because the car would like to save me by slamming on the breaks didn't sound like fun). Just sharing my observation as it was unexpected, unnecessary, and dangerous. Hopefully that seatbelt sensor doesn't ever fail.
     
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  2. Snowstorm

    Snowstorm Member

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    I guess a gradual slowdown is ok, but why should autosteer stop? If there was an unexpected event and the seat belt is disconnected, person needs to get out of the seat for an emergency, won’t it be safest for the car to keep going to the best of its ability? A gradual slow down may be ok, but an abrupt stop with no steering cabapiloty should not be good unless AP really have no idea how to continue.
     
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  3. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    If person needs to get out of seat, that could indicate needed to get out of car, in which case stopping first is a good thing.

    @Hazelwood , might you have leaned in your seat such that the seat occupancy sensor deactivated? I'm wondering if it is the same sort of issue as people have when looking over their shoulder while backing up with seat belt off and car goes into park. (vs only the seat belt sensor)

    This may be a new software addition due to the guy who was ticketed for moving into the passenger seat while AP was on.
     
  4. Hazelwood

    Hazelwood Member

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    I haven't updated to the nag software, so itsi not a new thing. The message I quickly read indicated the action was a response to the seatbelt being unclicked and not movement out of seat. I'll likely try to reproduce again (when not in bumper to bumper traffic about to get hit for stopping for no apparent reason) to see what's really happening. Just sharing because it scared me to death and I'm not a fan of big brother running my car when it's not predictable.
     
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  5. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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  6. appleguru

    appleguru Member

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    I find this behavior incredibly dangerous and annoying tbh...

    When a seatbelt is unbuckled while on autopilot, the correct behavior imo would be immediately warn about the seatbelt, but provide at least 5-10seconds of “grace period” before beginning to slow the vehicle. The assumption being that normally when this happens, the driver intentionally removed their seatbelt for a reason (to fix it, remove a jacket/obstruction/etc) and will put it back on momentarily. After that grace period, sure, slow the vehicle (*much* more gradually), with hazards on.
     
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  7. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    The driver should be stopped when doing anything like that. When in a moving vehicle, 100% of your attention should be on the road and not doing anything else, especially something so distracting that requires you to remove your seatbelt, which is required to be worn by law when driving in basically everywhere.
     
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  8. Hazelwood

    Hazelwood Member

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    Ty for the video, now I don't have to figure out what it was doing. Still don't understand why they chose to do that but I..uh...feel much safer now. So seatbelt undone...car stops. Emergency vehicle stopped in front of you....not so much.
     
  9. Hazelwood

    Hazelwood Member

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    Sigh! There's always one. You are correct, 100% attention on driving, no speeding, sneezing (you'll blink), drinking or eating, the list goes on.

     
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  10. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    you're more likely to die or fly out of a car without a seatbelt. The driver in that car that crashed into a firetruck was texting and not paying attention and somehow only had a broken ankle despite crashing into a parked car at high speed.
     
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  11. Hazelwood

    Hazelwood Member

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    Who wasn't wearing a seatbelt?

     
  12. tpham07

    tpham07 Active Member

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    you're clearly not getting what I'm saying. Let me try and explain

    You were mocking the fact that a Tesla will stop autopilot when you take your seatbelt off but not stop a collision with a parked emergency vehicle, no doubt referring to that incident in the news a month or two ago where a girl was texting while on autopilot and not paying attention and her car crashed into the firetruck.

    two things:
    wearing your seatbelt is proven to save lives. if you're not wearing a seatbelt, you're more likely to die in a crash period.
    the driver in that Tesla crash where autopilot wouldn't stop only suffered a broken ankle despite crashing into a parked vehicle at high speed, only demonstrating the superior safety profile of a Tesla.

    Therefore rebutting your point that a Tesla vehicle is unsafe because it won't detect a stationary vehicle (most radar based systems don't) but it will stop when you take off your seatbelt.
     
  13. appleguru

    appleguru Member

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    You are of course technically correct...

    But practically, 100% wrong. Why create a more dangerous situation for the driver and everyone else on the road by playing “nanny” and imposing 0-tolerance rules with no leeway?

    Adding a (small) grace period would really make the vehicle (and this nanny feature) actually safer.
     
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  14. mongo

    mongo Well-Known Member

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    Unless the use case is an issue where the person needs to get out of the car as quickly as possible. Then a delay is a bad thing...
    Also is it more dangerous? What if the person bumps the steering wheel while doing whatever it is they are in the process of (thus swerving or disengaging AP unknowingly)? Given the antics people get up to, kicking out of AP on seat belt release may be safer on average.

    (I agree that often, inaction/ lack of determining intent, is often a better choice for SW)
     
  15. MXWing

    MXWing Active Member

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    No one has business removing their seatbelt when the gear is set to D or R. The few cases you can imagine you are safer in P when doing so.

    What’s the first question anyone is going to ask after you are thrown through your windshield in a Tesla?

    Was Autoplot turned on?

    I rest my case.
     
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  16. Need

    Need Active Member

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    The slow down could be just because cruise control is disabled when autosteer is disabled. When I disable AP changing freeway, I always press the accelerator before disabling. That way I could control my speed. If not, the car immediately will drop about 10 mph because of the regen braking.
     
  17. scottrobertson

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    It's done this for a long time. Bjorn has done many videos on it.
     
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  18. Oldschool496

    Oldschool496 Member

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    #18 Oldschool496, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
    Now I'm on a trip cruising along at 78mph, AP engaged and I feel like I should adjust my seat a bit as I'm tightening up a bit in the same position at 6'3".
    I'm in a loaner P85D(one of six loaners throughout my ownership experience) and I re-position the seat and its getting a bit tight with the seatbelt on. So, I unbuckle for a few seconds to create new slack and bam everything changes. The guy to my right simultaneous to my action has decided to come into my lane and cross behind to my left lane and the brake lights come on as is customary. The car is slowing rapidly, I push the accelerator and rebuckle.

    Again, repeated here, you learn something new everyday. Bad place for class to be in. It was a close call as reported by my daughter in the backseat as I never saw all that crossing lane business, I was busy reacting to the cars actions which came as a total surprise to this 2 year Tesla driver/loaner car user.

    It did however, I am certain leave the people behind me again saying "WOW another Tesla driver has no idea what he is doing". "Those cars are dangerous, what in the H... is he doing". I doubt it if I ever read this in the manual, perhaps a re-look is in the cards. I'm looking for Bold type that says:


    "Do not for any reason EVER unbuckle your seatbelt while driving at anytime without understanding that major braking event can and will unfold automatically and you may be in a serious accident from the rear of the vehicle. Pull over to the side of the road, come to a complete and safe stop, then unbuckle if you must".

    All of that on one blank white screen by itself I think is appropriate here.

    This is not Emergency Automatic Braking, but its right up there. As I lately also discovered by reading quite a bit everywhere that EAB may, I say may only work below like 40 or 35 mph(as I cannot get a clear answer on that) and certainly not for non-moving objects like Fire Engine(s) parked in the lane of travel. Sound familiar. Two years into ownership still learning.

    I fully get the non-moving object thing after analyzing it, the car would never move if it stopped for these non-moving objects as they are all around us. Now tell all of your customers this. They think the car drives itself and it does quite a bit to everyone's amazement and not so amazing moments like Fire ENGINES while texting and un-buckling your seatbelt for any reason.
     
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  19. appleguru

    appleguru Member

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    You guys have really never gotten on the highway in the winter, felt too hot and removed an outer garment while still driving??

    Is it better to pull over? Sure... am I putting myself and others on the road in danger because I removed my seatbelt for 5 seconds to do it? IMO, no more so than changing a radio station... on a car with autopilot, this sort of a thing should absolutely be even safer than, for example, a manual transmission car with no lane keeping/TACC...

    And what is this use case where the person “needs to get out of the car as quickly as possible” but autopilot is somehow still engaged?? I don’t get it.

    Let me rephrase my stance here with a simple assertion: Slamming on the brakes for all scenarios except to avoid an impact or staying on the road is far more dangerous than gradually reducing speed in response to a changing condition (speed limit, seatbelt status, whatever).
     
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  20. Oldschool496

    Oldschool496 Member

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    #20 Oldschool496, Jun 26, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018

    I love this one, When I used to live in colder climate, YES, I have and I did not even think of this. Great point really. tpham07 though is right, you should pull over and come to a safe and complete stop for this activity. Do people do it, rarely. Did I ever almost never, unless I got my arm stuck in the sleeve.

    Is it safe? IN FOG (California's Great Central Valley) can't see 5 inches in front of your car, snow, rain, sleet or hurricane, no way is getting out of your car safe in these events. In fact, stopping is not advised in any persons book. YOU may die certainly in FOG if you stop. So you will have to live with your condition until its safe to stop and unbuckle.

    I want to be clear also, if the car is going to do something in non-Emergency situation, I just want to know how it will react so I am not caught un-aware ever again. Knowing is knowledge.
     

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