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Public Charging Etiquette - Unplugging Teslas from J1772s

Discussion in 'Model S' started by LeafDriver, Mar 4, 2018.

?

Unplug Teslas when all EVSEs are full?

  1. Yes any charge level

    1.9%
  2. No

    91.6%
  3. Only when my battery is < 50%

    2.3%
  4. Only when my battery is < 25%

    4.2%
  1. MorrisonHiker

    MorrisonHiker S 90D 2018.21.9

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    At Denver International Airport, there are 47 spots with EV charging stations. None of them are located in the short-term parking areas so they are obviously not intended for use when dropping off or picking up passengers at the airport. Of the 47 EV charging stations, 36 of them are Level 1 so it's pretty obvious they are intended for use when people are using long-term parking. These EV charging stations use J1772 connectors and are hard-wired so users don't need to bring their own EVSE/UMC/etc. in order to use them.

    DIA is nearly 30 miles from downtown Denver and 45 miles one-way from where we live. We have a neighbor who has a Leaf but of course he does not attempt to drive it to the airport when picking up or dropping off passengers. If he did, I don't think he'd want to park in the long-term lot to charge for several hours just to make the return trip home. I could see him using it if he planned on parking there for a day or more as it would allow him to charge while he is out of town. That's what they are there for.
     
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  2. appleguru

    appleguru Member

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    That’s literally the point of airport L2 chargers in long term parking areas. They’re nearly useless for short term parking/charging. I would have absolutely no qualms with parking there for a month plugged into one if i had a trip that long. I’m paying a premium to park there (a month trip would cost about $1k for parking.....). One of the perks is that I get a charged car when I return. Not even a little selfish IMO. *flame on*
     
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  3. ModelNforNerd

    ModelNforNerd Active Member

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    Could you PM me your personal details? I look forward to reading about your "Charger rage" arrest in the coming months.
     
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  4. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    So if it weren't a long-term lot, I'd agree. But surely you understand that not all long-term lots offer valet service. (I can name a number if you'd like :).)

    At PDX, I have three choices for getting electrons: Valet park ($30/day), Short-term ($21/day), Economy Lot ($10/day). I have never once been annoyed if the short-term or long-term charging options are already occupied. It's an airport. People leave on trips. If PDX management expected people to move right away, there would be signage indicating that or 'Must move once full'. The valet parking is self-explanatory.

    If short-term or long-term is full when I arrive, then I have two options: Pay for Valet parking or pay a crazy fee to evGo nearby ($22/hour for CHAdeMO). (There is no attendant to come move your car at PDX in those two lots.) I've never once thought people were inconsiderate for parking there while traveling. (But I do get super annoyed if it is a spot somewhere other than an airport, where people obviously can move their car.)

    I think it's just common sense on this one. I am honestly surprised that you think this is one to argue about. Charging protocol is set by the airport. Here is what PDX has to say about it (note they specifically say there are no time restrictions in the lots I mention):

    Screen Shot 2018-03-08 at 10.16.49 AM.png

    Since you mentioned DFW, I took a quick look at what they had to say about the same issue - I note they also say there are no time restrictions in specific areas:

    Screen Shot 2018-03-08 at 10.19.01 AM.png
     
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  5. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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  6. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    You didn't read the thread so didn't see my post earlier: Interrupting charging after the 6 hour window since start means that car may not resume charging.
     
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  7. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    If that's the policy of the lot owners/operators, I'd assume there's an implied acceptance to that practice if you park there.

    I parked at a garage in NYC that had 2 HPWC's, each between to parking spaces (four total reachable). They'd swap in new cars as they arrived and plug/unplug as necessary... if I recall they asked when I first arrived how long I'd need, and tried to accommodate that. I was ok with it... as I had opportunity to accept those conditions.
     
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  8. David99

    David99 Active Member

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    10 Pages and probably many more to come. The issue can't be solved in any other way than installing more chargers. If we have enough chargers, all arguments and discussions about this topic are gone. This very discussions shows how many different opinions and needs and viewpoints there are. There is no solution to serving 10 cars with 2 chargers when everyone has different needs and batteries and schedules. Only 10 chargers will solve the issue of 10 EVs wanting and needing to charge.
     
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  9. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Here's the one I made... I laminated it and roll it up in my window when I need ot use it:

    chargeplacard.PNG
     
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  10. GatorGuy

    GatorGuy Member

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    The only way to solve this is to charge people for their electricity use and increase the cost as needed. This is exactly why Tesla is charging for Supercharger use now.

    However if you make pay for use then you'll likely end up with more chargers. But increasing the number of chargers isn't the answer. You'll never have enough because free chargers encourages the wrong behavior.
     
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  11. dgpcolorado

    dgpcolorado high altitude member

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    #191 dgpcolorado, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    I use my EV frisbee a lot, since I charge so that the charge stations can be seen to be used, not because I really need it:

    EV frisbee1994crop 3-6-18.jpg
    ^ Yes, I deleted part of my phone number for this picture since I don't want it on the internet. I was unplugged by a LEAF driver last fall; he texted me to say he was grateful for my note. LEAFs are uncommon here because it is very hard for them to get to this remote area; that might change with the longer range LEAF 2, although they still wouldn't be able to make it here from the Denver metro area or Salt Lake City, without great difficulty (Chademo DCFC doesn't exist here in the mountains).

    As for letting others know if the car is fully charged, this is the charging indicator of the newest public charge station in my area:

    Ridgway EVSE ready1992cropsf 3-5-18.jpg
    ^ Car connected but not charging (done).

    Ridgway EVSE charging1993cropsf 3-5-18.jpg
    ^ Car connected and charging.

    The other two brands of charge stations we have around here, Schneider and Eaton, show whether a connected car is currently charging with a flashing blue light. It seems to be pretty common to have some sort of indicator of this sort. So, why are you so insistent that you be able to see flashing lights on the car?
     
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  12. appleguru

    appleguru Member

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    I think we’ve beaten the airport discussion to death (bottom line, is pretty much the only place it is ok to stay plugged into a charger for an extended period of time once you’re done charging. Here’s a chart from my longest airport stay so far on the charger:
    9EEC3605-41B4-4BCC-A0F7-BEBC8E035BAE.jpeg

    I have had a few trips where I didn’t need a charge/had some more time... for those I usually park in the economy lot (which doesn’t have chargers).

    Despite the airport chargers being ~90% full usually, I have not yet run into the situation where I needed one and there wasn’t one available (even during peak parking times when the garage didn’t even have any more non Ev parking left). This tells me the ~30 or so stations they have here are just about the right number for the current EV load.

    My position stands though: never unplug someone’s car unless you have their permission to. (Tesla got it right by locking their charge handles to cars when the car is locked).
     
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  13. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    your screen shots are now showing up
    Thanks for posting those notices.

    PDX: "There are no time restrictions, and so you may utilize the charging stations for as long as you wish"
    DFW: "If you are charging your EV, there is no time restriction for these spots"

    Although a bit vague, I read that as saying you can utilize those stations as long as you are charging. Parking in that spot, plugged in and not charging is NOT considered as utilizing that station - IMHO. You may rightly say that I am reading too much between the lines. Thats just a difference in approach on how we look at this problem.

    Now I fully understand that unplugging and moving is a logistical challenge, but if there are no means to solve that problem (like a valet or an attendant), don't plug it in and run away. I am only referring to Level 2 chargers. 110V are a completely different ball game.
     
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  14. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    I give up.

    @mkjayakumar, you do you & move your vehicle when parked in a long-term lot. I, however, will utilize those spots as intended. I'm probably one of the most considerate people, always leaving notes on my car (at least as far as charging in the wild goes :) ), but obviously you think this makes me a selfish jerk.

    I can live with that. Can we put this topic to bed now? You're obviously not going to consider you might be wrong in this particular instance. So I'm willing to move on. Not going to respond to you again, so you are free to have the last word. Peace.
     
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  15. mkjayakumar

    mkjayakumar Active Member

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    Peace. No need to get upset. I am just making my case and I learnt a lot by reading all the opposing views. Atleast it got me thinking that all of these people cannot all be wrong.. and thats a great start.

    I have been burnt by inconsiderate people in the past not in airports but other places. Hence the over cautious approach to be considerate. I even lobbied at my work place to let Chargepoint directly charge the drivers, instead of company paying for it and making it free for the employees.
     
  16. bhzmark

    bhzmark Supporting Member

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    #196 bhzmark, Mar 8, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
    Long term lots are the unusual case where it is ok to stay plugged in ... Because there is no other option.

    But i see lots of Teslas that are local (indicated by county stickers), and plug-in hybrids, parked in the local airport EV chargers in the daily lot because the parking lot stupidly put the EV slots in prime desirable parking territory.

    The EV chargers are all taken, by many cars that don't really need them -- they are keeping a limited public resource from people who need it.

    Click the link and see the second and third pics to see exactly what I describe. Some Teslas dont even bother to plug in.. they just take the parking space.

    PlugShare - Find Electric Vehicle Charging Locations Near You

    Is that enough certainty for you?
     
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  17. ModelNforNerd

    ModelNforNerd Active Member

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    What if they work at the airport? Now we're back to the scenario where the service is being provided by your employer.....

    So, no, unless i specifically KNOW the person, where they work, and why they're parked there....still not enough certainty for me.
     
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  18. Brunton

    Brunton Pontificating the obvious

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    After all these pages of blather three things seems obvious:
    1. Some folks here are very much products of the "entitlement culture," as they expect special treatment with no real justification.
    2. They don't see it that way, and they likely never will.
    3. Some (not nearly all) Tesla owners don't give a rat's patootie about their lack of consideration for others when parking in a charging spot they really don't need to utilize.
    I've used a 1772 charger for my S90D twice. Both times were an absolute necessity. Would I have sat there for hours "trickle" charging otherwise? No. That would be crazy.

    When I go to the mall I don't park in the EV slots because I don't need to charge. I park in general parking instead. That's called being courteous to those who may have a more urgent need to charge than I.
     
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  19. trm2

    trm2 Member

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    There is one Chevy Volt I used to unplug all the time when I wanted to use the J1772 charger to charge my Model S. I always knew the Volt was fully charged before I did so and I never asked the owner's permission. Then I changed a few things around and had a second 240 line going to my garage. My wife is now the exclusive user of the J1772. :D
     
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  20. bhzmark

    bhzmark Supporting Member

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    #200 bhzmark, Mar 9, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
    If all Tesla owners and plug in hybrids were that way, that would solve the problem. But they aren’t, so there is a problem to solve.

    The solution: unplug them and look on their screen to see if they are still charging. And see if they left their cell number on their dash or hang tag. If not then if the cord stretches then you can charge. Put your cell # on your dash and with your estimated time to depart and plug them back in when you leave.

    Ignore those who issue fatwas against touching another person’s car (or even the public charger plugged in to them).

    But most importantly, if you don’t really need to charge, don’t charge at stations that tend to fill up, and encourage parking lots to place chargers in undesirable locations to discourage unnecessary charging.

    Sorry for those offended by a common sense sharing etiquette — you should get over it.
     
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