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Public Charging Etiquette - Unplugging Teslas from J1772s
- Thread starter LeafDriver
- Start date
thecloud
As rhythm raced inside, the ship came alive
Unfortunately, I think many Leaf drivers have this "I'm more entitled to use the charger than you" attitude toward Teslas. More than once, I've been unplugged less than 5 minutes into a L2 charging session, and when I returned to check on the car, it was always a Leaf that had parked next to me and was now using the charger. This business about indicator lights isn't the issue; in my experience, the issue is "I need juice now and I don't want to wait my turn."
I definitely care that I'm unplugged when I'm low on juice myself. I suspect we're being trolled here.
I definitely care that I'm unplugged when I'm low on juice myself. I suspect we're being trolled here.
kingjamez
Member
Yeah, don't know why i didn't notice the post count... shouldn't have fed the troll.
I own Tesla and have friends with a leaf. Their range sucks so bad they do really need the charge, perhaps just to get home or wherever they Are going. Tesla drivers rarely if ever really need to charge on a j1772. I see them all the time charging at grocery stores and airports when they live less than 50 miles away.
They don't need the charge. They just want the good evening parking place or the free electrons. Unplug em.
When i have needed to charge at a j1772, both times in 40k miles, i put my business card on the dash so people can call my cell if they are desperate.
They don't need the charge. They just want the good evening parking place or the free electrons. Unplug em.
When i have needed to charge at a j1772, both times in 40k miles, i put my business card on the dash so people can call my cell if they are desperate.
kingjamez
Member
How on earth do you know that others don’t need a charge?
I drive a Leaf too, I get it. But I’m certainly never going to unplug someone unless I talk to them directly and get their approval.
Don’t mess with somebody else’s car. Period.
-Jim
I drive a Leaf too, I get it. But I’m certainly never going to unplug someone unless I talk to them directly and get their approval.
Don’t mess with somebody else’s car. Period.
-Jim
Addendum: Once a Leaf is done the 3 blue lights only remain on solid for 5 minutes then they all go out.
OP, can you post some Plugshare URLs of the locations where you've found J1772 stations that DO NOT indicate if the attached vehicle is charging or not? I've not personally seen any J1772 L2 EVSEs for public charging that don't indicate in some way either via dot matrix display w/a message, UI on the LCD (e.g. solid lightning bolt and blue power flowing animation), a charging light, etc.
OP's poll is bad, as well. My answer would be none of those choices. My answer would be only if I'm 100% sure it is FINISHED charging or I have obtained permission from its driver to unplug early. I do not permanently interrupt the charging of any actively charging vehicle w/o permission.
There might be cases where I might need to swap cables to optimize port usage (e.g. reachability issues between available handles and cars that need to be plugging in) but I generally prefer to avoid that if I have no way of contacting the driver. Some vehicles might have a charging timer turned on that I can't bypass w/o the owner doing it. Swapping might cause a permanent interruption.
Besides at my work where we have etiquette and it is OK to unplug cars that are done charging and to plug in your own vehicle and others waiting w/their charging door open... (We have LOTS of EVs and PHEVs at my work, including Leafs, Teslas, all the way down from the Spark EV all the way up to the BMW i8...)
The only proper time to unplug a car is if it's done. I've been a Leaf driver for over 4.5 years. I sometimes use free public L2 charging about 5 miles from home. If I am 100% sure that a car is done charging and I need to plug myself in. I do it. However, I've memorized the charging indicators on most cars that have them (ahem... Tesla) AND the stations themselves have a charging light that is lit when the attached vehicle is charging. If I see completed vehicles and others waiting w/charging doors open within reach, I plug them in too.
Some folks at the above public charging leave their car plugged in for hours after their car's done, occupying the space and tying up the plug. There's no reason for them to remain plugged in if the car is no longer drawing power. (This free public charging is NOT marked properly so that non-plugged in vehicles can be ticketed either.) I've seen it time and time again over the past 4.5 years.
Back to my work, we do have an internal registry of EVs/PHEVs and their driver and license plate, but some folks uhh... ignore the rules and don't add their vehicle.
And, it would be a pain in the butt while in the parking garage to go around w/my phone and/or laptop pinging people asking for permission to unplug their FINISHED vehicle to plug in my own car and/or other cars waiting. They may not be available to answer.
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I have been unplugged before. I was 85 miles from home with 75 miles of range. I was not in a hurry, so I thought I'd go to a local theater that has 4 6.2kW J1772 Chargepoint EVSEs found a charge and a movie. These were all empty, and one of the three happens to be free while the others are $1 an hour, so naturally I chose the free one, plugged in and went to the theater.
I came out and checked the app, noticing I had no more charge than when I started. I went out and found my car unplugged, and the cord plugged into a Ford phev. All three of the other units were unoccupied (except for the stall the Ford was plugged into being blocked by them).
Point is, my big-battery Tesla DID need to charge so that I could get home.
GatorGuy
Member
Someone seems to have some resentment towards Teslas.
I'd never plug into a J1772 location unless I was desperate for electrons. My phone would notify me if you unplugged me and I'd be there angry as hell within minutes ... I have no idea why you'd imagine you have priority, we are all trying to get to where we are going, not plugging in for the fun of it. The SC network kicks J1772's ass so hard it is incomprehensible to me why anyone would be plugged in there unless they really needed it, and you should assume if the charger is on the person plugged into it is as desperate as you are.
If you _really_ think the Tesla is being a jerk, it's not hard to calculate the distance to the nearest supercharger, multiply by 250wh/km, and figure out how long the Tesla needs to get enough range. Wait for that amount of time, then put a note saying how you calculated they had enough and unplug. But this should be for emergencies only in my view.
That sucks. That Ford driver was either ignorant of the Chargepoint UI or being an ass.
FWIW, all the Ford PHEVs I've seen and the gen 1 Focus Electric have a ring around inlet area that would indicate fullness in fourths. This could be a source of confusion vs. Tesla behavior. Gen 2 FFE switched to a vertical bar graph.
I carry both of these in my glove box:
https://pluginamerica.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/evcard.pdf (from The EVCard - Plug In America)
http://www.evchargernews.com/chargeprotocolcard.pdf (from EV Charging Protocol, with a date from 2003!)
If I leave my car at public charging, I tend leave the latter on the dash w/paper clip on the appropriate hour. I also leave a sign up by the 3 blue lights on my Leaf indicating how to tell if it's done charging (and okay to plug) vs. not done.
There is an ass on a couple Leaf groups who has open hatred of PHEVs and has no qualms about unplugging an actively charging PHEV because they have an engine and gas tank.
SMSMD
Active Member
At the free public L2 charging I use with 8 J1772 handles, I see Teslas charging very frequently, ranging from Model S, X and even 3's (!) a few times. They're just taking advantage of the free juice since PG&E rates are so high.
Often, I see them show up in another car to pick up their completed car. I've seen a Model 3 driver show up in a Model X and then both cars leave. I've seen this w/numerous other Teslas besides all the other vehicle types that charge there.
In the SF Bay Area, most of us have Pacific Gouge & Extort as their electric provider. It is pretty understandable that one would want to take advantage of free juice where one can find it. From my home, the closest Superchargers are 24 miles NW of home and and a bit over 24 miles SE of home, while the above free L2 public charging is only 4.5 miles from home.
And given that free Supercharging doesn't exist on the 3 and it's not free on S or X unless you have an older vehicle or got a referral...
I've only ever unplugged a car I know was done. I'm not more important than anyone else and I don't know if they need a full charge, but they were they before me, so they get a full charge first. I does annoy the crap out of me when they are done and don't move. The service (ChargePoint, blink, etc) or their car should tell them when they are done.
Sorry, but battery capacity doesn't matter. You never know WHY they are getting a charge and people don't know my next trip length. The only thing fair is first come, first served, whatever charge you want to get; once full, move.
Sorry, but battery capacity doesn't matter. You never know WHY they are getting a charge and people don't know my next trip length. The only thing fair is first come, first served, whatever charge you want to get; once full, move.
Unfortunately, some folks ignore the notifications from the service (e.g. Chargepoint) or intentionally turn off Chargepoint and car notifications (SMSes, emails, push notifications) like a guy at my work, for some reason. Or, they don't act promptly on them.
However, if the EVSEs aren't networked, there's no way to send them. The free public L2 charging w/8 J1772 handles I use has 8 non-networked Clipper Creek 30 amp EVSEs. They're free, so we can't complain too much. Chargepoint EVSEs aren't cheap and they charge quite a bit to the owner for a subscription. There are a few free L2 J1772s EVSEs at a few shopping centers thanks to Volta Charging | Home which also aren't networked.
Some vehicles have NO on-board telematics (e.g. all Leaf S trims) so they have no cellular radio nor wi-fi to tell the driver car's done. And, 2011 to 2015 US Leafs came w/a 2G TCU. AT&T turned off 2G service at end of 2016. 2011 to 2014 SV and SL trims (S trim started with 2013) drivers have to pay $199 to get the hardware swapped out to a 3G TCU, to get it working again (if they wish). Let's just say that upgrade is buggy and has some problems. I've experienced them myself. And, not every '11 to '14 Leaf driver has paid for this.
And for others, the telematics service isn't free the whole time. I don't know the details as there are too many vehicles. I hear for the Fiat 500e, it goes dead at 3 year mark w/no option to extend nor renew.
All of virtually all EVs/PHEVs will give you a time estimate, but it may not be that accurate and again, the driver may not decide to move promptly...
Leave a note on the dash for when charging is expected to be complete for needed range and a phone number.
This is being courteous in the same manner as it is proper not to unplug cars who are charging.
Communication within our growing community is the key. We’re all on the same team!
This is being courteous in the same manner as it is proper not to unplug cars who are charging.
Communication within our growing community is the key. We’re all on the same team!
At free public L2 J1772 charging w/8 plugs, almost NOBODY does this. Every time I visit, I look to make sure everyone is charging and to see if there's anyone I can plug in, I'd say that 95+% of the time, there is neither of what you ask for. :/
At least most folks at the above spot are courteous about that. Some are not and some are likely confused by the indicators on cars and not looking at the indicator on the station. I've talked to some gen 1 Volt drivers who are confused by Leaf's indicators because for them a flashing light == done. But a flashing blue light on a Leaf usually means charging.
What's worse is that GM REVERSED the meanings of their indicators between their older and newer vehicles, so GM people and OTHER people can make incorrect assumptions if they rely on those instead of the station's indications.
Gen 1 Volt (thru model year 2015) and Spark EV (ended w/model year 2016):
- solid green == charging, flashing green == done
Gen 2 Volt (2016 to present) and Bolt EV (began with model year 2017):
- flashing green == charging, solid green = done
Thanks GM! NOT!
We also have a few (?) mystery people are work who are unplugging cars that are still charging. And, we have a few (the same?) mystery people at work that are closing open charging doors. This is despite having an internal web page on charging that they seem to be ignoring that shows the UI (and the charging vs. done states), goes over the etiquette and there being some (unfortunately small) signage that alludes to plugging in cars w/charging doors open + starting a session for that car when they leave.
Agree.
Phillip L
Gas Passer
Back in 2016 I once pulled into a hotel in Québec with very little charge and with another Model S plugged into the lone J1772. I was an 80 amp charger. It was about 2 in the morning. I thought about how to tell if their car was finished charging. I unplugged it to see if the charge status screen would pop up on the centre console. It did, showing they were fully charged. So I plugged the evse into my car. I made sure I left a polite note on their windshield, under the wiper explaining what I had done. Funny thing was when I woke up in the morning, I noticed on the app that my charging had been interrupted at about 6 in the morning. I can just imagine that they went out to leave, saw the evse plugged into my car, got angry and unplugged it. Then they must have seen my note and replugged the evse into my car. The neat thing was that there was my note with an addendum written on it on my windshield, saying no problem and have a good trip.
Racerx22b
@unplggdd on Instagram
How do you know what direction the Tesla will be going? And where is it written a non Tesla EV has priority to use a PUBLIC charger when a Supercharger is in the vicinity?
Just because your EV builder didn’t fully invest into the EV system by building a nationwide network of fast chargers doesn’t mean you somehow have priority at public chargers.
If you’re not happy with charging options complain to your car manufacturer or complain to your local gov’t or talk to local businesses to convince them of the benefits of adding to public charging or buy a Tesla or a hybrid or a traditional ICE car. Complaining on this forum won’t accomplish jack.
Also, if you bought a leaf or whatever short range EV you knew the range. You also know your daily driving habits. If those don’t align then the only person you have to blame if you get stuck waiting on a charger somewhere is you. You should’ve never bought that car if it didn’t align with your daily driving habits and/or your patience or obligations didn’t allow for you to be sitting at or waiting for a public charger when you travel more than your typical daily driving habits.
If your situation changed since buying the car then you should look into another car if the perils of public charging doesn’t work with your lifestyle or personality. Or you need to accept you will need to wait at times. Even for a Tesla.
This is the equivalent of me buying a moped then complaining because I can’t get on the interstate because it’s too slow or that I can’t pick up bulk supplies at the hardware store.
We don't have such problems around where I live. There aren't any public charging stations. I would like to think the unplug or not decision tree would go something like this:
Do you own the car?
Do you own the car?
Yes - unplug whenever you want.
No - Do you have explicit permission from the owner (via note, text, phone call, smoke signals, etc.)
Yes, this can lead to some people being jerks while leaving their cars plugged in. Just get mad and move on. There are enough crazy people in the world that could "go off" by having someone mess with their car - it isn't worth it.No - Do you have explicit permission from the owner (via note, text, phone call, smoke signals, etc.)
Yes - feel free to unplug.
No - don't unplug under any circumstances even if you can tell the car is fully charged - you don't have permission.
No - don't unplug under any circumstances even if you can tell the car is fully charged - you don't have permission.
dbldwn02
Active Member
Touching someone elses car, without their permission, gives me the fricken willies. With that said, one time, I parked at the airport parking garage which had a charger. I was going to be gone for about 2 weeks so I plugged in, hoping to get enough juice to make it home when I returned. By the time I checked my bags, someone already unplugged me. Sooo crappy. My car sat there, slowly draining until I came home.
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