Public Charging Etiquette - Unplugging Teslas from J1772s

[GatorGuy]

If the company's intent was to provide free charging for employees who switch to EVs as "A means of encouraging to a more sustainable future for all of us", then ALL employees with EVs should be able to get that benefit.

If it was to provide a way for employees to buy short range EVs and still be able to commute long distances (an odd and slightly specific intent for a company perk, but lets go with it), then they should charge the going rate for electricity, instead of making it free. That way no one is getting "special treatment", but it still enables EV use for anyone who want it.

I agree. The only real answer is to let the free market decide who really "needs" to charge. If there were no more free chargers and everyone had to pay for their electricity it would guarantee change behavior. It would almost 100% open up chargers to people who really needed the charge.

Also paying for it would hopefully get more high speed chargers as well.

 

[scaesare]

This is the very simple common sense and decency point.

No complex flow chart — just simple decency.

People who pretend not to understand this or think it is more complicated are either bizarrely selfish or just stupid

the one that absolutely needs it to reach his/her destination should be given courtesy preference.

It seems that there are relatively few folks here that disagree with this premise and are of the "screw everyone else" mindset... (but there are indeed a few).

I applied the emphasis as I did for a reason: the premise is that it's something to be given... not taken.

All the Teslas do NOT need any extra charge to get home

Here is where the larger disagreement seems to be. For all the reasons previously pointed out, this blanket assertion may not hold true (person has to travel some distance after work, they have a 100 mile commute in the cold in a 60, etc...).

For example, there's a guy here who drives 120+ miles after work on some days in his Tesla. In the cold weather we get, that can burn 200 miles of range. The 208V/40A charger we have her only adds ~24 miles per hour.

Hence, the blanket assertion is something that simply can't be known for the vast majority of situations, and is hence invalid.

All Leafs and I3 absolutely do need on a cold day.

Again with the blanket assertions.

Average US commute distance: 16 miles. And 92% of commutes are less than 35 miles

2016 Nissan Leaf Range: 107 miles.

Even in the cold the Leaf should easily get the vast majority of people to and from work without charging at work at all. As eould the 81 mile i3. And that's not the new 2018 Leaf w/ 150+ miles range. Or the i3/REx or a Volt. Once again, this blanket assertion is invalid.


The point is, circumstances can, and do, vary. Making blanket assertions as to when to TAKE charging from others when you can't know all of those circumstances is every bit as much of an entitled action as is the discourteous person who hogs a charge station.

 

[Electroman]

For all the reasons previously pointed out, this blanket assertion may not hold true (person has to travel some distance after work, they have a 100 mile commute in the cold in a 60, etc...).

For example, there's a guy here who drives 120+ miles after work on some days in his Tesla. In the cold weather we get, that can burn 200 miles of range. The 208V/40A charger we have her only adds ~24 miles per hour.

It is always convenient to make the edge cases as the standard scenario and work on a a solution to accommodate those edge cases.

 

[scaesare]

It is always convenient to make the edge cases as the standard scenario and work on a a solution to accommodate those edge cases.

Or, it illustrates that blanket "one size fits all" generalizations seldom hold.

 

[Electroman]

Or, it illustrates that blanket "one size fits all" generalizations seldom hold.

No. The way you do it is, you have a goal something like,

"Maximize the number of people who can reach their destination with the shortest wait time possible".

If each one voluntarily stops charging after they have enough charge (to whatever comfort level they have) then everyone can get to the pie and eat it too. On the other hand, if each one takes the position, 'I hold the charger now and I can stay here as long as I want even if I don't need the charge' - then we have a problem. And that problem is acute in free chargers, because then greed takes over courtesy and civilized behavior.

 

[anicolao]

If only this were true.

Perhaps it's regional. I'm not the charger police, but most places I live in Canada have free EV spots and it's usually reasonable to assume that the vehicles parked there are parked for good reasons. Perhaps in other countries the situation is much worse -- it certainly seems that way based on this thread where the basics we were taught in kindergarten seem not to apply.

 

[trm2]

Perhaps it's regional. I'm not the charger police, but most places I live in Canada have free EV spots and it's usually reasonable to assume that the vehicles parked there are parked for good reasons. Perhaps in other countries the situation is much worse -- it certainly seems that way based on this thread where the basics we were taught in kindergarten seem not to apply.

Well, there you go ruining things with logic and common sense.

 

[JayyyDeee]

Teslas generally shldnt be hogging j1772s when other EVs will usually be more desperate for the charge. Unplug them if you are desperate and the cable will reach you and they've been there awhile or the cable and adaptor are cold or you can otherwise tell that they are no longer charging.

Why would I not be allowed to use public charging at a mall like anyone else your post makes zero sense

 

[anicolao]

 

[bhzmark]

Why would I not be allowed to use public charging at a mall like anyone else your post makes zero sense

You shouldn't take up a limited public resource, like chargers, when you don't need it and others do.

Selfish small minds cannot grasp the sense in such a simple point.

 

[Electroman]

You shouldn't take up a limited resource, like chargers, when you don't need it and others do. Selfish small minds cannot grasp the sense in such a simple point.

+100

The point that I have been trying to make throughout this thread.

 

[scaesare]

Nobody's disagreeing with not using a shared resource unnecessarily being the right thing to do.

The point is that you can't possibly dictate what's "unnecessary" for everyone else.

THAT is the point I don't understand why it's so hard for some to grasp.

 

[Retrospected]

So from what I gather in this post, many people seem to believe that you shouldn’t use a public charger for convenience, only necessity?

 

[bhzmark]

You missed the key ingredient from the original post.

Several of the public J1772 stations have been full and I have been unable to charge.

 

[brkaus]

Bottom line - charging should not be free. It brings out irrational behavior.

See also - 20 min Costco gas lines to save $0.10 per gallon.

 

[Electroman]

charging should not be free and so should be idle parking at a charger.

 

[Racerx22b]

You shouldn't take up a limited public resource, like chargers, when you don't need it and others do.

Selfish small minds cannot grasp the sense in such a simple point.

I've re-read your posts in hopes I would somehow be enlightened of your viewpoint but all I could surmise is that you assume if all chargers are being used some or all of those people shouldn't be there because a short range EV's need to charge is greater than theirs.

The problem with your assumption is that you have no idea what the needs of the people plugged in are.

I think nearly everyone that has been a part of this thread agrees that using the limited resource only when necessary is the right thing to do. Including me. Our contention with your outlook is that you assume any Tesla plugged in shouldn't be because they could drive home or to a nearby supercharger to a charge. This is flawed logic. Some Teslas aren't even able to use superchargers.

It seems to me if you bought a vehicle that is not in line with your daily driving habits and because of that poor vehicle choice you want anyone with an EV that has long range to bow down to short range EV because "they need it more". Nobody can possibly know with any certainty who needs it more unless they interact with the vehicle owner. Therefore, the first come, first serve rule is the law of the land for how I approach public charging. And it should be the same for all.

There is another part of this equation you're missing.... If you unplug someone you might return to a car that is not in the same condition as you left it. Keyed, door kicked in, window cracked, flat tire.... I wouldn't put it past someone to do any or all of that. That is not how I would do it but this is the world we live in now. I suggest your proceed with care.

 

[GatorGuy]

charging should not be free and so should be idle parking at a charger.

Glad we can agree on that.

 

[bhzmark]

Nobody can possibly know with any certainty

That's the essense of your point. And people who reason from probabilities, and discount edge cases, are incomprehensible to you.

I don't know how people get through life requiring certainty and not thinking probabilistically -- poorly I imagine.

But anyway, if you require more info unplug them and watch the screen to see the charge state. It's really so simple.

 

[Racerx22b]

That's the essense of your point. And people who reason from probabilities, and discount edge cases, are incomprehensible to you.

I don't know how people get through life requiring certainty and not thinking probabilistically -- poorly I imagine.

But anyway, if you require more info unplug them and watch the screen to see the charge state. It's really so simple.

When using probability in making decisions with regards to what affects you and only you this is fine and completely logical. When you are dealing with other people's lives and/or property you should proceed with certainty. I have got through life quite well with little to no issues with this philosophy. Thank you for inquiring.

If you can see the car is at 100% charge this is the only scenario I would so is okay to unplug. Anything short of that you do not touch. I still think it's a little sketch to mess with another person's car and I don't think I would do so but you do you.