Public fast chargers - payment methods

[Chuq]

I thought I'd split this discussion out from another thread!

The discussion was about different payment methods used by fast chargers in Australia. Chargefox has their own card/app, as well as Evie and some smaller networks.

I thought I'd highlight a few others:

Electric Highway Tasmania will both accept Chargefox card/app, but also direct credit card payment (Paypass/Paywave and presumably anything else using the same tech such as Apple Pay). In their presentation from May, their spokesperson Clive goes into detail about this being in consideration of tourists who are non-EV owners, who hire an EV while they are on holiday here.

I found one called EVup - I've seen some of their AC sites on Plugshare, but they seem to be planning to do DC as well. On their "charge now" page they say: "As monetised sites are added they’ll have paypass (Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, Google Pay, credit or debit cards) facilities included so you can quickly and easily tap and go (without having to download or log into an app). Setting up EV charging in this way supports universally accepted cashless payment methods that EV drivers use every day."

NRMA is still free, but they will be eventually free only for NRMA members and paid for non-members. Their plan was to integrate this into their existing NRMA app. However I'm not sure how that works. If you aren't a member, you won't have their app installed. Seems like a great method to attract new members!

And of course Tritium has recently announced their new units support Plug and Charge, which is even easier than touchless card payments!

 

[rohan_aus]

I thought I'd split this discussion out from another thread!

The discussion was about different payment methods used by fast chargers in Australia. Chargefox has their own card/app, as well as Evie and some smaller networks.

I thought I'd highlight a few others:

Electric Highway Tasmania will both accept Chargefox card/app, but also direct credit card payment (Paypass/Paywave and presumably anything else using the same tech such as Apple Pay). In their presentation from May, their spokesperson Clive goes into detail about this being in consideration of tourists who are non-EV owners, who hire an EV while they are on holiday here.

I found one called EVup - I've seen some of their AC sites on Plugshare, but they seem to be planning to do DC as well. On their "charge now" page they say: "As monetised sites are added they’ll have paypass (Apple Pay, Samsung Pay, Google Pay, credit or debit cards) facilities included so you can quickly and easily tap and go (without having to download or log into an app). Setting up EV charging in this way supports universally accepted cashless payment methods that EV drivers use every day."

NRMA is still free, but they will be eventually free only for NRMA members and paid for non-members. Their plan was to integrate this into their existing NRMA app. However I'm not sure how that works. If you aren't a member, you won't have their app installed. Seems like a great method to attract new members!

And of course Tritium has recently announced their new units support Plug and Charge, which is even easier than touchless card payments!

It needs to be regulated and mandatory that a charging station must have credit card facilities. The multitude of apps and RFID cards is simply awful and is another way to get your personal details as most apps require your name, address, email address etc to signup.

Biggest problem with apps is lack of reception. If a charger is underground, you can't start or stop a session, Byron Bay for example has a big bank of chargefox chargers that are essentially useless because you're underground, have no reception and can't activate them. Yes, RFID cards are a backup, but this requires pre-planning and you have to order one, have it mailed, etc.

The UK is already on this, with regulations in place that all chargers must have credit card facilities in place:

https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-...V&t[1]=Chargemaster&t[2]=fast chargers&curl=1

** rant over **

 

[Chuq]

The multitude of apps and RFID cards is simply awful and is another way to get your personal details as most apps require your name, address, email address etc to signup.

Sometimes this can be good. Some AC charging stations have the Type 2 socket hidden behind a locked flap which you must use the phone app to unlock. I would guess that this is very good at preventing vandalism. Can't smash up the socket if you need to provide your phone number and credit card details to do so Similarly, I don't know if it's feasible to lock DC charging connectors in their holsters unless released using an app?

Of course if reception is an issue then that must be identified when the station is being built. If it's a known issue it's easy to fix.

Not too fussed about providing details. I mean, they're a business that you're buying services from, pretty standard. They need it for their deals with manufacturers where you get X number of years of charging included with the car. While I don't think Aussie networks do it, it's also possible to have membership structures which allow for a monthly fee, in return for cheaper session rates. And it's nice to get the emails about new stations and so on. Besides, they have the VIN of your car don't they?

 

[jamesgo]

I got both the Chargefox and Chargepoint RFID cards mainly cause with quite a few of the chargers being in underground carparks, phone reception isn't always the best but at least the RFID cards always work and it's used to unlock/lock the chargers. A slow speed open wifi connection at the chargers would solve that admittedly.

As for the networks, yeah likely they'll be some consolidation and mergers so i'm guessing some will survive. Chargefox has a good lead Australia and NZ, Chargepoint is massive in the USA but has lots of J1772 connectors.

Hopefully they'll be more Tesla Destination chargers so you won't have to worry about the network.

 

[ARMARM]

Similarly, I don't know if it's feasible to lock DC charging connectors in their holsters unless released using an app?

They really should be looking at that, apparently, some of the ChargeFox ultra fast chargers have been vandalised by using the connector to break the display!

 

[AEdennis]

If you read the detail on the ISO15118 (Plug and Charge) implementation, the charging networks have to agree to implement on their end and the vehicle also needs to support that.

I would think Tesla would resist in NA where it uses the proprietary connector, however, they might do it for CCS2 markets because of Europe... So, stay tuned.

 

[moa999]

NRMA is still free, but they will be eventually free only for NRMA members and paid for non-members. Their plan was to integrate this into their existing NRMA app.

I'm hopeful they use Chargefox.
The Zetland East Village have NRMA branding for example but aren't part of the free network and use Chargefox

 

[rohan_aus]

I'm hopeful they use Chargefox.
The Zetland East Village have NRMA branding for example but aren't part of the free network and use Chargefox

This is a little different, the Chargefox 350kw chargers that have NRMA branding technically aren't part of the NRMA charging network and were not installed or operated by NRMA like their network of 50kw chargers, it's just that Chargefox partnered with each state's motoring club to deliver charging, which has caused a lot of confusion in NSW.

In Victoria Chargefox have "RACV" branding, Qld they have "RACQ" branding & in Tas they have "RACT" branding.

 

[aegidius]

RFID cards seem to be fairly universal, in that (for e.g.) you can register a Chargefox one (handy on the keyring) to open up Evie chargers. They just provide a unique 32-bit number to the charger for validation. This might help for convenience in the proliferation of RFID-enabled networks - unless of course they start checking and restricting, but there's no motivation for them to do that.

 

[Hairyman]

Unfortunately Jolt aren’t providing RFID cards when last I checked. I hope their policy changes because the reception and labelling of charger sockets issues can be a real pain. When they have a bigger number of stations that I am likely to use I will check again.

 

[cafz]

It'd be nice if you could put the charger cards into Google Pay / Apple Wallet so you can just tap your phone.

 

[PC__LoadLetter]

Not too fussed about providing details. I mean, they're a business that you're buying services from, pretty standard. They need it for their deals with manufacturers where you get X number of years of charging included with the car. While I don't think Aussie networks do it, it's also possible to have membership structures which allow for a monthly fee, in return for cheaper session rates. And it's nice to get the emails about new stations and so on. Besides, they have the VIN of your car don't they?

These companies exist on government grants. The grants are issued on the basis of gathering information on charging patterns in the early stages of EV adoption. They can't do that if they let you pay by tap-and-go credit cards.

And I'm not sure the VIN is automatically provided. Not yet anyway. The main technical standard is mostly about providing different resistance etc to signal a demand for more or less juice, or whether ventilation is required (e.g. charging a forklift with lead acid batteries that leak hydrogen & shouldn't charged indoors or underground). Sure, a newer standard is there to switch all that around, but it requires adoption by several parties to actually work.

 

[meloccom]

RFID cards seem to be fairly universal, in that (for e.g.) you can register a Chargefox one (handy on the keyring) to open up Evie chargers. They just provide a unique 32-bit number to the charger for validation. This might help for convenience in the proliferation of RFID-enabled networks - unless of course they start checking and restricting, but there's no motivation for them to do that.

I have a ChargePoint RFID card so upon reading your post I thought I would try to add it to my ChargeFox and EVIE accounts. It worked for EVIE but unfortunately the RFID identification number is too long for the ChargeFox field to enter your RFID number.
Still 1 out of 2 ain’t bad.

 

[moa999]

Interesting. Both my Chargefox and Evie cards used 8 digit alphanumeric.

 

[cafz]

Interesting. Both my Chargefox and Evie cards used 8 digit alphanumeric.

It's not alphanumeric, it's hexadecimal. 8 hex digits = a 32 bit number.

 

[meloccom]

Strangely my ChargePoint card has a nine digit number.
Might apply for a ChargeFox card and use that as the card for all others.

 

[aegidius]

Evie has a standard sized card, while Chargefox has a little round thing that goes on your keyring. I use that for everything.

 

[meloccom]

Evie has a standard sized card, while Chargefox has a little round thing that goes on your keyring. I use that for everything.

How do you apply for the ChargeFox card, I can’t find a way in the app or website?

 

[moa999]

How do you apply for the ChargeFox card, I can’t find a way in the app or website?

RFID – Chargefox

www.chargefox.com

 

[aegidius]

How do you apply for the ChargeFox card, I can’t find a way in the app or website?

There wasn't one for me either, I had to ring them up old school style.