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Public vs. Private institution discussion

bkp_duke

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
5,011
15,978
San Diego, CA
National Health Service (like in the UK) does the trick. Single-payer (like in Canada) does the trick. Pretty much nothing else does, and yes, everything else has been tried.

Ironic you mention this, as there was a great article about the UK system just out yesterday.

British And U.S. Health Experience Shows Single-Payer Is Abominable


In the end, it boils down to how you want to ration care, because there is NOT an infinite supply.

Med school is too expensive in the US, and student loans create a problem.

Almost all foreign countries subsidize any competent (i.e. able to get admitted) person going to med school. We don't. It's another problem.

Oh really? Then how did I get a full ride from US Gov for the entire medical education?

Like so many here, please stop quoting your "opinions" as fact.
 

bkp_duke

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2016
5,011
15,978
San Diego, CA
Because Switzerland has a system where profitable health insurance companies have their profits confiscated and transferred to unprofitable health insurance companies. Plus they're all required to offer identical policies. So they get a very low fixed government-specified rate of return, and compete on "concierge service" quality.

It works OK, though it's much more expensive than single-payer due to the vast unnecessary paperwork overhead. In terms of the financial profile for the companies, it already is single-payer, with competition only over how obsequeious the receptionists are.

Do you think there is a chance in HELL of passing that here in the US? Because I don't think there's a chance in hell of passing a policy which routinely confiscates excess profits from every insurance company which made money and gives them to those which lost money.

Just like I don't think there is a chance in HELL that we will see single payer.
 

Carl

Supporting Member
Jan 12, 2013
1,741
2,160
Belgium
It always intrigued me that the U.S., often five or more years ahead of us Europeans on so many issues, can't manage to have a basic healthcare system.

Not that I'm very knowledgeable on the subject, but everywhere in western Europe you would more or less have the following:

- each and every individual is covered by social security, which includes coverage of between 90% and 99.9999% (depending on the issue) of medical costs. Paid by mandatory social security contributions of employers and employees, and the rest is paid out of tax moneys;

- hospitals and doctors can decide that they want to be totally independent (in which case they can ask whatever they want as fees, but their clients will not be covered by social security) - quite obviously nearly no hospitals or doctors ever do this (those doctors would probably rather emigrate to the U.S. - there could be some brain drain here, but at the same time Belgian university hospitals have quite good ratings in terms of breakthrough findings, so it's not like we're lagging so much behind the U.S.);

- if a hospital or doctor accepts social security refunding of its patients, each and every of their interventions has a fixed fee (negotiated yearly between the government and the Order of Medecine). Do hospitals/doctors therefore do unnecessary interventions, such as screening a 90-year old on STD's? For sure that sometimes happens, but statistics help in scrutinising and sanctioning hospitals/doctors who do so. Overall not a big problem, although everyone who has ever been in a hospital probably has an anecdote to tell in this respect.

- additional private insurance can buy you the right to have a hospital room for yourself (instead of having to share one with one other person). And here is the only exception to the 'fixed fee' principle (and 'brain drain' dilemma): doctors in a hospital working on patients which have their own room for themselves, are free to ask a 'supplementary fee' (which is often 100% or 150% of the fee reimbursed by social security). Over the last couple of years, there's been a big debate on that subject, as it obviously creates a "two-tier" quality of medecine which some would want to avoid, but on the other hand we also do want to limit brain drain, and, thirdly, if you want to pay more to get better quality, why not, say some...

Anyway: if AP2 tries to kill you and you end up in the emergency room of a Belgian hospital, no-one will be searching your pockets to find out whether you're insured :).

And more importantly: not only is literally everyone, including illegal immigrants, covered, but those types of healthcare systems are apparently at half of the costs of those of the U.S. systems, as the OP mentioned. That is truly the most intriguing part !
 

CSFTN

Member
Aug 24, 2014
918
506
Memphis, TN
National Health Service (like in the UK) does the trick. Single-payer (like in Canada) does the trick. Pretty much nothing else does, and yes, everything else has been tried.
Interesting thread that I am jumping into. Pardon me if I missed it, but in response to this statement: any comments on the German system? As I understand it, multiple payers as we (USA) have, high quality care as we have, obligatory coverage thru either work or in a publicly-available 'sickness fund' as Obamacare would have. Main differences of which I am aware: the health insurance companies must as function as mutuals, and they are all available nationwide.

(PS for this that may not know: mutual insurance companies return their profits to the customers at the end of each fiscal year. So they are non-profits. Just like all Blue Cross and Blue Shields used to be.)
 

CSFTN

Member
Aug 24, 2014
918
506
Memphis, TN

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