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Pulling Permits for 240 install

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Mickie, Jul 13, 2016.

  1. Mickie

    Mickie Member

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    I have a friend who does great electrical work and will be performing the install. I'm curious if anyone's had their installs performed without pulling permits and what people's thoughts are on it. Thanks
     
  2. davewill

    davewill Member

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    Personally, I wouldn't allow unpermitted work on MY house. Sometimes a guy who does "great electrical work" merely hasn't been caught out yet. The permit and inspection process is your only real protection against a bad contractor. If he's not a licensed electrician, he won't be allowed to pull a permit.
     
  3. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    I believe that depends on your local jurisdiction.
     
  4. Mickie

    Mickie Member

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    I hear ya. He's licensed with 18 years experience. He's never done service for an EV but it should be no different than a customary 240 outlet install, correct?
     
  5. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

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    Why not pull a permit? The cost should be bearable and if the work is good then there should be no trouble passing. You'll be saving yourself a world of potential headaches later on if you sell the place or the wiring starts a fire.
     
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  6. Mickie

    Mickie Member

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    Sorta what I was thinking.
     
  7. Shipbldr200

    Shipbldr200 Member

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    It was always there right?

    I did not pull a permit to run an outlet 16 inches... That would have been more than the cost of the materials purchased to install the outlet and tripled the time involved. If the guy has years of doing the work and is licensed get out a roll of twenties and get it done. He probably has the materials needed leftover from another job and rolling around in the back of his truck.
     
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  8. ABCCBA

    ABCCBA Member

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    @Mickie Don't forget about the Professional Engineering stamped drawings, load studies and impact fees that you will have to also provide to the local jurisdiction for approval of the permit.
     
  9. Mickie

    Mickie Member

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    Sheesh.
    This is what I was originally on! You don't think there would be any issue if somehow down the line the unthinkable happens i.e. electrical fire?
     
  10. ABCCBA

    ABCCBA Member

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    @Mickie How far are you installing the outlet from the panel? I assume you are installing a 14-50?

    How to avoid something going wrong:

    1. Formulate a plan of action with your electrician
    2. Install a new breaker of proper size
    3. Install new conductors of proper size (Wire size is dependent upon length and maximum amperage)
    4. Make sure that all conductors have the insulation stripped so that only copper lays under the terminals
    5. Properly tighten all terminals

    What if something goes wrong? Make sure you have homeowners insurance

     
  11. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    I asked that question too, Flasherz answered it in a different thread.

    IIRC, YMMV, based on jurisdiction, the licensed electrician is responsible and liable, even if he didn't pull permits.
     
  12. Mickie

    Mickie Member

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    It'll run underground to a detached garage. Maybe 50 ft. or so. 14-50, yep.

    My concern, which I'm not even sure is a valid one, is if the car was to sustain damage somehow due to the outlet that I wouldn't be warranty protected against. But like ship said, who's to say it wasn't there? Also, if electrical issues were to arise, I didn't see anywhere that Tesla demands your home outlet to be permitted, only highly recommends it.
     
  13. ABCCBA

    ABCCBA Member

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    @Mickie

    It is pretty hard for a knowledgeable person to mess up an outlet. As to damage to the car from the outlet/service, again, it is just a dumb terminal that you are installing. So,:

    1. The outlet will pass only as much current as the breaker is sized for and the load is calling for.
    2. The voltage across the terminals of the the outlet is and can be no greater than the voltage supplied to your house.
    3. The Tesla monitors the voltage and current, and if anything is out of spec, it shuts down and disconnects

    Your only real concern, whether permitted or not, is that all of the terminal connections are tight and the proper conductor size is used for the amperage of the breaker.

    In the end, you have to do what will allow you to sleep at night. A permit can't be anymore than $150 at most.

     
  14. deonb

    deonb Active Member

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    #14 deonb, Jul 13, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2016
    In my town, home owners are allowed to pull permits and do any and all work on your own house beyond your meters, without being licensed - you just need to get it permitted before and inspected after.

    But it only extends to you personally doing work on your own house. Everybody else need to be licensed - even a friend. Maybe you can ask your electrician friend to just look over your shoulder while you do the work? *

    Also, over here, the city doesn't keep any records of permits issued once the inspection is done. So if your place burns down I can't see how the insurance company can complain and say it was un-permitted work, since they won't be able to get that information from the city, and I don't know of any requirement on home owners anywhere to preserve prior permit & inspection records. The insurance company can of course complain if things weren't up to code.

    Not sure how much of this applies to where you live.


    [EDIT] * Actually... I'm not sure if that will work. As far as I know, "personally doing work" means "personally overseeing work". So if you oversee work that a day laborer is doing, you still don't need to be licensed to perform work on your own home. But if your friend is looking at work that you are doing, the roles are swapped, and he is the one doing the work and you are the laborer. Meaning he does need to be licensed, bonded & insured in your city, county & state for this. I think...
     
  15. msnow

    msnow Active Member

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    Agree with most, get the permit. You have a $100k car and your house, why cheap out for a $150? Makes no sense. Maybe @FlasherZ will chime in.
     
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  16. Mickie

    Mickie Member

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    Great info and points guys. It's really not about the permit fee, as much as I loath giving more money to local government, but more about the long waits involved, the scrutiny, just generally being at the mercy of a possible d-bag for an otherwise simple job.
     
  17. mikeash

    mikeash Active Member

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    My experience has been that the process is fairly quick and the inspectors quite friendly. But of course I may just be lucky, or it may just be my area!
     
  18. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

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    It look me less than 10 minutes to get my permit, then when the work was done they scheduled the inspection within 24 hours of when I called it in. The inspection itself lasted less than 5 minutes. I installed a sub panel and a Wall Connector and moved my J1772 EVSE from the main panel to the sub panel. All work was done in my garage.
     
  19. ArtInCT

    ArtInCT Always Learning

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    Here in my town, according to my electrician friend, the application of a permit is the start of the work-order process for the town electrician to come and do the inspection of the work. So having your electrician's work and craft reviewed by someone else is in your benefit as a home owner. I would not skip that step. I think the permit cost to me was about $25. When all was said and done, this is not the area to skimp. The inspector was a very nice guy and confirmed that my electrician did a super job for me. The Tesla is happy too.
     
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  20. Mickie

    Mickie Member

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    Thanks fellas. I'll be contacting my village today :)
     

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