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Pump Running While Connected to Wall Connector

beeeerock

Active Member
Mar 12, 2015
1,514
430
Kamloops BC Canada
This relates to my 2015 85D, which has been connected to TeslaFi since December of 2018. For the last year, or almost a year, I've been seeing high vampire loss and TeslaFi has been reporting few and short sleep periods. I've been attempting to track this down and have been through the TeslaFi website's recommendations for TeslaFi to reduce polling etc. Note that I don't believe this problem existed until sometime last year.

I've also noted that if the car is left plugged in to my Wall Connector, I can hear what sounds like a small fluids handling pump running continuously somewhere near the front left wheel. The charge can be complete, but the pump still runs and will run until some random period after I go to the trouble of unplugging the Wall Connector. THe pump will run for days if I don't unplug the WC! My guess is that the pump activity is related to managing temperatures in the battery pack, but why it continues after the charge is finished... or why it's needed at all for 40 amps in a room temperature (or cooler) garage... I don't know.

When the pump is running (or the car is plugged in), the car doesn't seem to sleep. If I leave it unplugged, sleep behaviour seems to be appropriate and vampire loss drops.

I think there's an issue with the pump control logic and have been trying to get my Tesla service people to take an interest in the problem since last fall. No useful help from them to this point, in spite of doing a factory reset at their request, etc. Now they are telling me that TeslaFi is the problem and I need to uninstall/deactivate it before they will waste any time digging into the problem.

This seems like a chicken-egg conundrum. Is the pump keeping the car from sleeping, or is the car not sleeping because it won't turn off the pump? Or is it something else entirely? Is TeslaFi involved?

One other clue... If I set a time to start a charge, it seems like the pump will shut off after the charge completes. If I set a departure time, or set nothing, the pump runs.

Has anyone seen this problem before, whether associated with TeslaFi or not? I can disable the account for a while I guess, but it would be nice to be able to tell Tesla this isn't the problem, with a solid reason why. I can't see why any polling from TeslaFi (which is very little, since I followed their recommendations) would prevent a pump from shutting off (that probably shouldn't even be running in the first place).
 

Barry

Active Member
Aug 9, 2013
1,859
1,450
Colorado
The pump stays on when over 78% charge.

Tesla's customer-unfriendly way to protect their assets, as the battery is warrantied for 8 years, but the pump only for four. So, when the pump burns out from running constantly, it's on your dime.
 
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Kaveman

Member
Oct 27, 2020
54
25
FL
I have the same issue as the OP... 2013 P85. I did lower my battery charge to 78%, pump still runs. I will lower it to 75% later today and report back if the pump is running while plugged in. I thought the threshold was under 80%?
Kaveman
 

beatle

Active Member
Aug 31, 2019
1,251
686
Springfield, VA
The pump can run and the car can still sleep.

I think the hypothesis of the pump running isn't so much to cool the pack and charger, but to identify if there is a problem by seeing the coolant temperature rise. I also believe the threshold to keep the pump from running incessantly is 73%.
 

Gridlok

Member
Sep 20, 2017
86
29
Gibsons B.C.
After 4 years charging on a 110v 15A circuit, I finally got 60 amps to a wall charger! I was charging to 75% to keep fans/pumps silent but changed it playing around with my new "Supercharger". My question is, why am I not able to select a percentage? I make a choice based on the visual pic that has "trip" settings but don't find out what my SOC will be until it's charged. Am I missing something here?
 

tga

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Apr 8, 2014
3,997
2,865
New Hampshire
Is TeslaFi involved?
Probably. TeslaFi caused me all kinds of sleep issues, excessive contactor cycling, high vampire drain, etc. See this post 12V battery dying but no warning? and the surrounding thread. I had two issues here - a weak 12V battery and constant contactor cycling caused by TeslaFi. Ignore the 12V specific discussion.

When the contactors close and the DC-DC converter lights up, the pumps run to cool the DC-DC converter. I'm pretty sure the DC-DC is always energized, and, therefore, the pumps are always running, when the HV contactors are closed. Try disabling remote access from within the car, and/or deleting TeslaFi's remote access token and see if the behavior changes.

I could never figure out how to get TeslaFi to work properly and let the car sleep (it used to work, but something changed last winter and broke it). I decided the TeslaFi data wasn't all that useful and disabled it and let my subscription lapse. I got absolutely 0 help from the TeslaFi support forum; just a few me to's.

Also, I can charge to 90% overnight, let the car sleep, and my pumps aren't running the next morning. I don't buy the rumor that "coolant pumps run continuously when the main battery is over X%"
 

beatle

Active Member
Aug 31, 2019
1,251
686
Springfield, VA
After 4 years charging on a 110v 15A circuit, I finally got 60 amps to a wall charger! I was charging to 75% to keep fans/pumps silent but changed it playing around with my new "Supercharger". My question is, why am I not able to select a percentage? I make a choice based on the visual pic that has "trip" settings but don't find out what my SOC will be until it's charged. Am I missing something here?
The interface on the screen doesn't give you a percentage setting, but the app does. It shows up in the bar as you slide the setting left and right. You can also set it via TeslaFi.
 

beeeerock

Active Member
Mar 12, 2015
1,514
430
Kamloops BC Canada
A few interesting thoughts posted - thanks to all.

The idea that the pump will run as long as the battery is above a certain percentage... makes sense in a warped way, but why, WHY wouldn't Tesla Service know about this? They're getting snippy with me because I keep complaining about the problem. Why not just tell me to try reducing the top of charge level?

Given that my supercharging rate was throttled, maybe there's something to the suggestion that it's to monitor for pack health. But I don't know what it would show if there no actual charging going on. Perhaps a cell getting hot because it's failing, but that's more likely to become a garage fire I'd think.

As for TeslaFi involvement... I put a help ticket in to them on the issue and they tell me it's not likely to be them. They access the same APIs as the Tesla App does... while accessing could wake the car, it shouldn't trigger a pump or prevent a pump from shutting down. I've been through the TeslaFi settings and have set them to encourage sleep. And the car does sleep nicely - but only if the charge cable is not plugged in. Charging or not... plugged in is the issue apparently. In any case, I deactivated Teslafi yesterday morning and plugged in later in the day. The pump was running when I checked it late last night - hours after the charge had completed. I unplugged and when I next checked today the pump was off. So it would seem that the problem exists whether TeslaFi is able to poll the car or not.

I plugged in half an hour ago. Charge started, no pump noise. Maybe 3 or 4 minutes later, while I was still in the garage, I heard it spool up. So perhaps it starts up to even out heat while charging (40 amps), but doesn't receive or react to a trigger to shut off later when the charge completes.
 

Gridlok

Member
Sep 20, 2017
86
29
Gibsons B.C.
Thanks. That's good to know. I don't have Teslafi but I'll try the app.👍
Tried it but I have the same settings in my app as in the car. Slide your finger and guess. Also found the a/c on this morning while sitting unplugged in the garage! I know I left it on when I got out of the car yesterday, but it turned off as it should. Weird. I'll try a reset.
 

aerodyne

Active Member
Nov 19, 2018
2,829
3,031
Los Angeles
The pump can run and the car can still sleep.

I think the hypothesis of the pump running isn't so much to cool the pack and charger, but to identify if there is a problem by seeing the coolant temperature rise. I also believe the threshold to keep the pump from running incessantly is 73%.


Level 2 charging at home, 77% works for me. 78% not so much, unless the car is cool.

SuC at 80+% and everything is running full blast.

Teslafi problem solved be enabling deep sleep mode 23 hrs a day.

I only use it for the battery beta, comparing the other forgotten old cars of my mileage and vintage. Currently leading the pack at 266 RM...

But, really range now only 150 miles between charges, if I keep it between 20-80%
 

Kaveman

Member
Oct 27, 2020
54
25
FL
Followup: I charged to 85%, when complete, pump ran as long as the charger was connected(Gen2 mobile NEMA 14-50 @32A). Could hear it just being in the garage. Ran the car, then charged to 74%, (charger still connected) pump ran at a much lower speed( I'm not sure it was the same pump?) Barely audible unless you put your head near the wheelwell. Disconnect the charger and no pump noise...
Not sure what to make of it. Guess those pumps will run when connected.
Kaveman
 

henderrj

Active Member
Jun 16, 2014
1,008
839
Graham, WA, United States
I've had the same issue with my 2014, asked Tesla service multiple times, they all just tell me it's for the health of the battery. I don't think anybody in Tesla service actually knows. Some programming engineer down in Fresno probably has some idea, but they're not sharing! I found that I just don't plug my car in much anymore. Spent the first 4 years of ownership leaving it plugged in all the time, " a happy Tesla is a plugged in tesla". Don't believe that anymore!
 

BCTS

Member
Feb 8, 2021
144
84
Melbourne
I had similar issues in the last.. except my Fans would run at Full Bore every 45 minutes or so for 5 minutes.
Honestly I'd recommend contacting Tesla via the Service App and ask them to purge/delete any tokens you have associated with the Car for TeslaFi Access etc.
They will also get you to change your Tesla Account Password at the same time.

I did this and all of my Fan issues went away, and the Car now sleeps as expected and Range is increased.
Obviously if you must have TeslaFi installed you can add again later... but at least you have a complete "Like New Order" Baseline to work from then.
 

Kaveman

Member
Oct 27, 2020
54
25
FL
Charged to 85% overnight(says 83% charge complete, but that's something else). NO pump running...? Either it's temp related(was a bit cooler this AM), or the pump died? I'm going with ambient temp...
Just another $.02
Kaveman
 

beeeerock

Active Member
Mar 12, 2015
1,514
430
Kamloops BC Canada
Followup: I charged to 85%, when complete, pump ran as long as the charger was connected(Gen2 mobile NEMA 14-50 @32A). Could hear it just being in the garage. Ran the car, then charged to 74%, (charger still connected) pump ran at a much lower speed( I'm not sure it was the same pump?) Barely audible unless you put your head near the wheelwell. Disconnect the charger and no pump noise...
Not sure what to make of it. Guess those pumps will run when connected.
Kaveman
In my case, the actual pump that I can hear doesn't spin up until a few minutes into the charge. When I first plug in, I can hear something at the front wheel, but very quiet and likely something else.

I tested this morning after the car had been left unused and unplugged for a few days. Unlocked with the fob, plugged in the Wall Connector and charge began. 8 minutes later, the pump could be heard spinning up. Experience tells me it will run until sometime after I unplug the car. I'm going to sit in the garage after unplugging later today, to see how long 'sometime' actually is.
 

TLee

Member
Jul 5, 2015
14
3
Trafalgar, IN 46181
I have been concerned about the two coolant pumps running more or less 24/7 in my 2015 S 85D as well. I have removed the frunk liner so I could monitor them more closely. Indy SC was no help when I had it in for them to check, saying that I had to zero in on the component mysekf first. I have found that they will stay ON for long periods after charging is complete no matter if it is plugged in or not. Grrr... I do have it set to charge to 80%, and now will try reducing that to 70% based on this blog's inputs. We'll see.

2015 S 85D
 

beeeerock

Active Member
Mar 12, 2015
1,514
430
Kamloops BC Canada
I have been concerned about the two coolant pumps running more or less 24/7 in my 2015 S 85D as well. I have removed the frunk liner so I could monitor them more closely. Indy SC was no help when I had it in for them to check, saying that I had to zero in on the component mysekf first. I have found that they will stay ON for long periods after charging is complete no matter if it is plugged in or not. Grrr... I do have it set to charge to 80%, and now will try reducing that to 70% based on this blog's inputs. We'll see.

2015 S 85D
Wow, this is a great bit of information as it confirms my suspicion that it's not just 'me... doing something wrong'... as the service center seems to be implying. I'm actually getting annoyed at the responses I've had from them so far. They wanted me to agree to pay for someone's time to review logs... I said 'yes', but nothing happened. Then I get a message saying they want me to bring the car in and leave it with them for a few days. Not a huge deal, except the nearest service center is 4 hours away! Did they even review the logs??

Wondering... do you have a TeslaFi account connected to your car? I did and Service blamed it, even though it was configured to be as minimally active as possible. I shut down polling on the TeslaFi site and even revoked the certificate. No change.

I find that the pump will run for an indefinite period after unplugging the wall connector. If I don't unplug the wall connector, the pump will apparently run forever. Is that what you're seeing?
 

TLee

Member
Jul 5, 2015
14
3
Trafalgar, IN 46181
All - Based on the info that I read in this Blog (many thanks for that info), a few days ago I lowered my 2015 S 85D charge limit from 206 miles down to 182 miles. Walla!! The constant coolant pump operation stopped. They only ran when the car was charging, and didn't run on after the charge was complete, no matter whether the car was plugged in or not. Yay!!! So, now to poke the bear...

I then boosted my upper charge limit from 182 miles to 200 miles a couple of days ago, and so far, so good. The pumps are not running when it is not charging. I want to monitor it a while longer, but I ‘think’ that the 200 mile mark may be the magic limit that keeps the coolant pumps from running 24/7, both when plugged in and not. As a reminder, my pumps ran all the time when I was charging to 206 miles. Tis interesting that the cutoff point (so far) seems to be right at 75% of my current max charge level.



It sure seems like the Tesla SC ‘should’ be aware of this issue. I still think that I am either getting a run-around from them, or maybe they just don’t know what’s a whoopin. ??? For our car, the constant pump whine seemed to start after we had the MCU2 installed, then had to have the coolant 4-way valve replaced due to a leak. Both happened close together in time, and I can’t be sure which triggered it. But I sure didn’t notice the whine beforehand.

And, to answer Beeerock's question, I have never accessed or used the TeslaFi app.

Terry
 

Kaveman

Member
Oct 27, 2020
54
25
FL
Just a quick followup: Charged to 85% last night, checked this AM and NO pump running while plugged in... Differences: Temp is cooler this AM here in Sunny FL by 10 degrees or so, and software has updated since this thread started.
Kaveman
 

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