Pump Running While Connected to Wall Connector

[Matias]

To my understanding this change come couple of years ago because of fires. To my understanding Tesla thinks that this (constantly running pumps above certain temperature and charge) reduces the risk of runaway thermal reaction.

Tesla is updating its battery software following a car fire, claims improve longevity

Several Tesla Model S vehicles have caught on fire seemingly on their own without any accident lately and now Tesla...

electrek.co

 

[beeeerock]

I have tried charging to what appears to be 73 or 74% twice now - no pump noise. I've also charged twice to around 76%, or just over 75%. Pump remained on after both of these charges. Whether this is coincidence, I can't say for sure yet. I will continue to randomly select one charge level or the other and see what I hear, but I'm not driving much these days to make it happen quickly. I want to be sure there's a reasonable length of charging time required, so I'm not inadvertently skewing the results by not allowing enough charging heat to build (for example).

@Kaveman , what version are you running? I have 2020.48.37.6. It's been warm here (the dreaded 'heat dome' a few weeks ago), but isn't ridiculously hot now. In my case (earlier firmware mind you), I had the pump sound even when the garage was close to freezing. This has been going on for literally a year or more.

 

[beeeerock]

To my understanding this change come couple of years ago because of fires. To my understanding Tesla thinks that this (constantly running pumps above certain temperature and charge) reduces the risk of runaway thermal reaction.

Tesla is updating its battery software following a car fire, claims improve longevity

Several Tesla Model S vehicles have caught on fire seemingly on their own without any accident lately and now Tesla...

electrek.co

I had wondered whether this idea might be the cause. However, Tesla service is sure in the dark about it, if this is the reason. I've been back and forth with them for a year and have gotten nowhere. They want me to allow a few hours of labour charges so someone can investigate the logs. They blame TeslaFi (which hasn't had access to the car for a month or more now). Latest, they wanted me to drive 3.5 hours to the nearest service center and leave the car with them 'for a few days'. I've normally been happy with the service and felt the relationship was friendly and productive. However, with this issue, I get a really annoyed vibe from them, as if I'm putting them out by having a problem. I'm starting to wonder if they know exactly what the issue is, and would prefer that I just accept the pump wearing itself out and let it go.

Also, if I unplug the car, the pump will eventually shut off, even though the charge level in the battery hasn't dropped much at all. So if there was a thermal concern, why would it exist when the Wall Connector is plugged in with the contactors off, but not when unplugged? That doesn't make sense to me.

Looking at the drop in supercharging power, this noise, Tesla's apparent preference to ignore until I give up... I'm starting to wonder if there's more involved and perhaps everything is related. Are they just trying to get me past the 8 year battery warranty date? I'm not a conspiracy guy, but even I have to wonder.

 

[Kaveman]

2020.48.37.6

 

[sirathan]

Hi

I have the same issue. I have a 2015 P85D. When i charge to 80% the battery coolant pumps are running 100% (read out with Scan My Tesla over ODB). They keep running for a long time, during this time the car is noch going to sleep. They also stay on if i disconnect the wall connector. I have read stories of other users, that they keep running until SOC reaches 79%. The battery gets heated up a little while charging to about 30 degrees celsius ( i am charging with 13A, so 9 kW).

I am not using Teslafi, i use teslalogger and Scan My Tesla to read out what is happening.

 

[Doanster1]

For my P85D, 80% is silent. 90%+ is when the coolant heater kicks in/whines. Haven’t gone past 80% since updating to 37.6, though.
Need to charge to 100% and see if it’ll actually get to full as well as see if my list range is back per the lawsuit thread.

 

[beeeerock]

Hi

I have the same issue. I have a 2015 P85D. When i charge to 80% the battery coolant pumps are running 100% (read out with Scan My Tesla over ODB). They keep running for a long time, during this time the car is noch going to sleep. They also stay on if i disconnect the wall connector. I have read stories of other users, that they keep running until SOC reaches 79%. The battery gets heated up a little while charging to about 30 degrees celsius ( i am charging with 13A, so 9 kW).

I am not using Teslafi, i use teslalogger and Scan My Tesla to read out what is happening.

View attachment 692838

Another data point! It sure seems like this is a big enough issue that Tesla service people should know what it is... or at least, recognize it as an issue.

I had the pump start by charging to just over 75%... two tests, two starts. But the third time I tried, it didn't trigger and I had to take it to about 80% instead. That seems a bit odd, so I'll keep track of it for a few more weeks before dumping my data on the Tesla service guys' desk...

 

[Lasttoy]

I had one pump running alot. Charge rate was slow. Tesla ran test, pump #2 was bad. I changed it. All was fine. Take your trunk out. Check out what is going on? Remember pumps must keep pack at about 68 degrees. If u r under warranty?? They must fix. If not ? U will pay for the repair.
Changing a pump took 5 minutes. I had diagrams , I will have to look for them.

 

[beeeerock]

I had Tesla service over to deal with an annoyance on our Model 3 and took the opportunity to ask the tech if he had any ideas. Not really, as it turned out. He didn't think it was a hardware issue - more likely in the software, but of course, nothing can be ruled out. He was also visibly confused that so many people have the issue (two more in my group of friends here locally) but Tesla is giving me no ideas. Odd. However, he did ask if I had dual chargers or not, which I do. I wonder if the others on this thread have the stock single charger, or upgraded to dual chargers??

 

[lgli]

I had Tesla service over to deal with an annoyance on our Model 3 and took the opportunity to ask the tech if he had any ideas. Not really, as it turned out. He didn't think it was a hardware issue - more likely in the software, but of course, nothing can be ruled out. He was also visibly confused that so many people have the issue (two more in my group of friends here locally) but Tesla is giving me no ideas. Odd. However, he did ask if I had dual chargers or not, which I do. I wonder if the others on this thread have the stock single charger, or upgraded to dual chargers??

Thank you for all your good work on this.
I noticed similar a few days ago, so I have only run one test so far.
Pumps stopped when SOC had dropped to around 89-90%. Took between 18 and 24 hours after SOC to 99%. Charge cable was not connected.
Model S 60, 2014, basic + dual chargers. SC replaced the MCU this autumn, the memory issue.
Like most threads I have read in here this too just seem to die without any solution or conclusion? Well, I will come back after more testing.

 

[aerodyne]

Thank you for all your good work on this.
I noticed similar a few days ago, so I have only run one test so far.
Pumps stopped when SOC had dropped to around 89-90%. Took between 18 and 24 hours after SOC to 99%. Charge cable was not connected.
Model S 60, 2014, basic + dual chargers. SC replaced the MCU this autumn, the memory issue.
Like most threads I have read in here this too just seem to die without any solution or conclusion? Well, I will come back after more testing.

At 21 hours, assuming 0.6 KwH used, thats about 272 watts, very close to to what SMT shows with the car awake and all 4 pumps running at 100%.

I'd say you don't have a problem. It is mainly the 85 packs that have "pumpgate"...and also battery gate, regen gate, charge gate, etc, but I digress.

I have the pumps run any time I charge past 77%, and they will continue to run until below 73%, even when driving.

 

[lgli]

At 21 hours, assuming 0.6 KwH used, thats about 272 watts, very close to to what SMT shows with the car awake and all 4 pumps running at 100%.

I'd say you don't have a problem. It is mainly the 85 packs that have "pumpgate"...and also battery gate, regen gate, charge gate, etc, but I digress.

I have the pumps run any time I charge past 77%, and they will continue to run until below 73%, even when driving.

6 KwH you mean? Anyway, I have to know more about how this strange organism is supposed to work before I can decide whether I have a problem or not. Seems reading thousands of comments is the only way to make progress.

 

[aerodyne]

6 KwH you mean? Anyway, I have to know more about how this strange organism is supposed to work before I can decide whether I have a problem or not. Seems reading thousands of comments is the only way to make progress.

Yes, 6 KwH...

I don't think there is any problem with 6KwH over 21hrs at such a high SoC.

Since I have also read perhaps 100000 posts, let me suggest to store the car at 50-60%, charge before you drive in cold weather, set range to percent, drive the car down below 20% as much as you need, don't SuC over 77%, or whenever the AC and fans start to blow, and let the BMS do it's thing.

 

[lgli]

More test results. Logged the Battery tab of ScanMyTesla.
2. Same as the first test. Charged to 99%. After 19 hours pumps stopped and car switched off. SOC slightly above 89%. Minimum of Cell avg voltage: ~4.064 Minimum of Cell max: ~4.071
3. Charged to slightly above 90%. After 3+ hours pumps stopped and car switched off. SOC slightly below 89%. Voltages about the same as in test 2.

Tomorrow I will try charging to 89% if possible.

 

[lgli]

More test results. Logged the Battery tab of ScanMyTesla.
2. Same as the first test. Charged to 99%. After 19 hours pumps stopped and car switched off. SOC slightly above 89%. Minimum of Cell avg voltage: ~4.064 Minimum of Cell max: ~4.071
3. Charged to slightly above 90%. After 3+ hours pumps stopped and car switched off. SOC slightly below 89%. Voltages about the same as in test 2.

Tomorrow I will try charging to 89% if possible.

4. Charged to 88.1%. Pumps stopped after ~3:30 hours but the car stayed on at least 30 mins more. SOC at 86.9% Cell avg 4.049 volts and Cell max 4.055

So, the trigger is not a fixed value of SOC or cell voltage or the like, and then this is getting a bit time consuming. Time for some conspiracy theory? They didn't get away with capping to 4.07 V so now they are doing almost the same by allowing to charge fully but then draining down to around 4.07 again. Batterygate 2.0 ?

 

[beeeerock]

4. Charged to 88.1%. Pumps stopped after ~3:30 hours but the car stayed on at least 30 mins more. SOC at 86.9% Cell avg 4.049 volts and Cell max 4.055

So, the trigger is not a fixed value of SOC or cell voltage or the like, and then this is getting a bit time consuming. Time for some conspiracy theory? They didn't get away with capping to 4.07 V so now they are doing almost the same by allowing to charge fully but then draining down to around 4.07 again. Batterygate 2.0 ?

My magic number seems to be around 75%. I haven't set it higher for a couple of months now, but the garage is pretty cold these days. I should set it up a couple of percentage points and see if that still triggers the pumps.

FWIW, this has been something my service center knows I've been complaining about, for probably a year and a half now. I let it drop for a few months, then try them again. I'm at the point where I have to suspect that Tesla has told them to avoid and deflect. There is no interest in chasing the problem and they behave like I'm the only one suffering from it... which I know is not the case... and they have to know it too. All in all, between this and the supercharger speed reduction, I'm not feeling much love from Tesla. So much for being an early adopter.

 

[lgli]

Tesla Roadster (first generation) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

"The pack is designed to prevent catastrophic cell failures from propagating to adjacent cells (thermal runaway), even when the cooling system is off.[121] Coolant is pumped continuously through the ESS both when the car is running and when the car is turned off if the pack retains more than a 90% charge."

Some early S-es didn't work so they had to dig up some old Roadster stuff?

 

[S65458]

Has anyone discovered what is the cause and any solution to resolving it? My car recently started having the same symptoms. Anything over 80% charge, and the pumps stay on. They stay on till the battery charge drops to 80%.

 

[Doanster1]

Has anyone discovered what is the cause and any solution to resolving it? My car recently started having the same symptoms. Anything over 80% charge, and the pumps stay on. They stay on till the battery charge drops to 80%.

It’s not a cause/solution. It’s by design/update from Tesla a few years back to protect the battery. Nothing you can do about it. However, it shouldn’t keep running until you reach 80%, ie if you charge to 90% it shouldn’t run until you get down to 80%.

 

[S65458]

It’s not a cause/solution. It’s by design/update from Tesla a few years back to protect the battery. Nothing you can do about it. However, it shouldn’t keep running until you reach 80%, ie if you charge to 90% it shouldn’t run until you get down to 80%.

Gotcha. Thanks for the reply. I guess in my case, there might be something else as well. In my couple of attempts, after unplugging the vehicle, the pumps stayed on till the battery level reaches 80, then they go silent.