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Purchase advice needed, 70d new or preowned 85d

Discussion in 'Model S' started by Jonathan Scott, Mar 3, 2016.

  1. Jonathan Scott

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    Finally pulling the trigger on a MS, debating between two cars and looking for some opinions, the first car is a tesla loaner car, 2016 70d (5k ok it) with pano, autopilot, interior lighting, subzero, and third row for 86k (78.5 after rebate). The second car is a 2015 used 85d (7k on it)with pano, tech with autopilot, subzero package for $87...

    Like the idea of more power and range with the 85d just conflicted on if it's worth the extra 8k... Any advice would be appreciated!!!!
     
  2. DieAbetic

    DieAbetic Member

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    Are you going to use the third row? Do you drive a lot on a daily basis?

    The 85D is going to be a little fast, it'll charge a little fast as well, and of course it has more range. You may want to ask what battery packs they each have to see if the 70D has a newer version. $8K is a lot of money for a little more range.

    Personally I'd take the newer 70 with the discount because I don't put a whole lot of value on extended range and slightly faster charging (as you can see, I have a 60) - but to each their own. Really depends on your driving habits and personal finances.
     
  3. Jonathan Scott

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    Eventually we'll use the third row as our two kids are about 1-2 years away from being old enough for it so figured I could always add it later on. Regarding range, in all honesty, the 70d is probably just fine but there are a few trips we make regularly that would require stopping to charge via waiting till we got home with the 85d...

    wasnt aware are of different battery packs per model?? What do I need to know about them?
     
  4. DieAbetic

    DieAbetic Member

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    Your kids will love the backseat, so there's that.

    There are different battery packs with (supposedly, I don't think anyone really knows) potentially different chemistry/setup. I have a "B" pack from 2014, but I think they are up to "D" or "E" at this point (not sure). In general, I think it's best to get the newest version of a battery pack just in case they made little upgrades/changes. Some people say they are all basically the same though, so it really shouldn't matter THAT much.

    If you take a lot of long distance trips, then the 85D will save you some time for each trip - since it charges faster and can hold more. Granted, not a whole lot of time but potentially 10-15+ minutes per charge if you are comparing the 0-100% on the 70D vs. 0-80% on the 85D since the charge tapers off on the 70D earlier. So depending on the amount of stops you need to make, the 85D could save you 30+ mins (or more if you don't even need to stop) on trips with 2+ supercharger stops.

    Since you have the little ones and think the 70D range is probably just fine, I'd personally go with that to save some money. Another important point: the 70D can get the extended warranty, the CPO 85D cannot. That's a big point for me personally, since I'm keeping my car past the 50K/4year mark. If you get the 70D you can put that $8K towards the service and extended warranty (ie extended service agreement).
     
  5. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    Not all kids love the backseat.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm too lazy to find it, but someone did a table. And it's about a 20minute (maybe 30?) difference in charging on a 500 mile trip.

    You typically don't charge 0%-100% at a SpC, you just need enough to get to the next one.
     
  6. Jonathan Scott

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    Yea from what I've read, I'm really not worried about the charge times for each car, the issue I'm looking at is we go down the shore a lot in the summer which is about a 95 mile trip each way, both cars would make it fine but the 85 would allow around town driving while down there with range to make it back home, while down the shore we'd only have 115v available to charge so basically useless for a 1-2 night weekend trip
     
  7. DieAbetic

    DieAbetic Member

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    Yes I'm aware of both those. All the kids I've seen love the backseat - it is pretty cool. And yes I'm aware of the charging, which is why I qualified it with 2+ supercharger stops. What I said lines up with exactly what you said.
     
  8. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    You haven't met my daughter...

    Sorry, I misread it, you're right (or I guess, we agree)
     
  9. Fanatic1

    Fanatic1 Member

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    Newest, largest battery with dual motors you can afford/like to spend.
     
  10. AMPd

    AMPd Active Member

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    I would go with the 85D, longer range, faster!
    And as Max pointed out, your kids might not even like the 3rd row seats.
     
  11. chriSharek

    chriSharek Member

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    I've got to agree with Fanatic1. Range is King. There's going to be some degradation, there's going to be weather conditions, there's going to be issues that come up. Biggest battery they make - which is what I ordered.
     
  12. Tellotes

    Tellotes Member

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    I was in the same boat as you, but I was comparing a new 70D vs a new 85D. After going back and forth and ended up test driving the 70d over the weekend and went crazy over the 70D. More then enough for me and still very fast. Saved myself 10K!
     
  13. Fanatic1

    Fanatic1 Member

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    In the end, you can't go wrong. It's a Tesla!
     
  14. Jonathan Scott

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    Question for you all, say I go with the 70d, so range is 240, normal driving everyday is about 120 miles, I plug it in at night, will I wake up with 240 after 8-9 hours of charge? Also, say I go on a roadtrip, drive 180 miles to a supercharger with 60 left, I leave it plugged in for half an hour, how close will I be back to a full charge?

    my biggest concern as I'm sure most have had is the unplanned driving on a trip, looking at the supercharger map, there is no need for the 70d however what I fear is no longer being able to decide to take the scenic route from time to time or venturing off on unplanned trips...
     
  15. Max*

    Max* Autopilot != Autonomous

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    1. You only want to charge to 90%, not 100%. It'll kill your battery faster if you constantly charge to 100% SOC. So 90% gives you about 214RM. In the winter my IC show 208RM. (Flasherz has shown that the RM changes seasonally)

    Consider that in the winter, on long distance trips, I can get maybe 350wh/mi, instead of the 290wh/mi that the "208RM" is supposed to give me, you can expect only ~170 usable RM.

    On short trips, I've seen 500wh/mi (several short back-to-back trips), which means if you need to run an errand, stop for an hour, run an errand, stop for an hour, you might only get 100 miles out of the car.


    I would check evtripplanner.com to see how many RM you'd need for your 120 mile commute. That might be cutting it too close, and a 90D might be a better fit for you.

    2. Yes, if you have a NEMA 14-50, the car charges at 30mph over night, so you can go from 0-240RM in about 9 hours (add another hour for the last few percent). If you never get it to 0 miles, then you need to charge less than 8 hours.

    If you get dual chargers, and a 100A line, and a HPWC, you can charge twice as fast

    3. Unplanned trips are harder in any car. The 90D will give you an extra ~45RM, if that'll help you take the scenic route, then your decision is easy.
     
  16. KJD

    KJD Member

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    I would say go with the biggest battery that will fit in your budget. For everyday driving 120 miles is easy though even with a 70 it would be easy.

    The real question is how often do you go off the supercharger highway ? The "Find Us" page on the Tesla web site will show charging locations with an HPWC. There are more of these every year.

    The other option that I have used many times is the RV park with a 50 Amp outlet. Yes they are slow, but they are all over the place and on an overnight stop who cares if they are slow.
     
  17. Fanatic1

    Fanatic1 Member

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    Agreed.

    Range on my 85D charged to 90% which is the max recommended for daily commute use to maximize battery life is 242 miles each morning after 5000 miles (tires just rotated at Tesla).
     
  18. Jonathan Scott

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    thank you all for your advice, the more I read about real life range vs theoretical I think I really need to just pony up the bucks for the 85d or 90d if I can find a good deal on one... This will be our first electric car so I don't want to soil the wife's experience of it... Plan is to give her whatever I buy now in 3 years and then hopefully get a model X if it is as good as it looks on paper....

    Side note... If anyone knows someone with an 85D, P85D, or 90D that is upgrading to a model X and wants to sell it, please tell them to get ahold of me..... [email protected]
     
  19. rcarpen22

    rcarpen22 Member

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    I have a 70D and it's fantastic. I'm currently in an 85 loaner and I haven't noticed any difference in the charge time. That said, if I had it to do over again, I would get the 85D, not for range as much as for the extra power. 70D is quick, but nothing like the 85D.
     
  20. Bimbels

    Bimbels GoldMember

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    #20 Bimbels, Mar 4, 2016
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2016
    You definitely can get enough charge with a 115v. We just did a trip to VT and our rental house had just a 115v outside. We were 45 miles away from the nearest SC, did not charge full before we left it. Plugged in at the house whenever we were not using our car, and even though at times we were getting only 1mi/hr of charge due to extreme cold temps (-25f) we were able to drive our car the entire weekend including giving multiple test drives just for fun. We had more than enough to get back to the SC for our trip back home. And that is even with significant range loss due to the cold temps.

    You also are not considering that you can use public charging while there. Plug in while you're eating dinner, shopping, etc. No big deal.
     

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