Lots of people are misinformed about lots of things they haven't really paid attention to. I do not think GM was intentionally marketing the Volt to deceive people into thinking it didn't have an ICE. They've always been very upfront that it had a gas engine.
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Pure BEV Dogma
- Thread starter bonnie
- Start date
For 2011 models I found 8.9 seconds for Volt and 9.4-10 seconds for Leaf. Not a huge difference.
Nissan Leaf 0-60 Times - 0-60 Specs
The point is very few people would buy an EV with a 40 mile range. The fact that the Volt has a ICE generator backup that allows quick 'charging' and 150,000+ gas stations had to play some role in the decision otherwise why not buy a cheaper ICE that seats 5 people or gets better gas mileage?
GM clearly marketed it as an electric car with extended range. Did any of the ads show someone pumping gas or talk about a gas powered engine as what 'extended' the range? Sure, you quickly figured out looking into things how the Volt went farther than 40 miles but GM didn't help with that.
green1
Active Member
Chevy Volt Commercial From Gas Friendly to Gas Free - YouTube
Chevy Volt Commercial.mp4 - YouTube
Chevrolet Volt - Charge Ahead - YouTube
So where does it clearly state that this is not an EV?
Discovery Chevy Volt Super Bowl Ads HD - YouTube
Chevrolet Volt Anthem Television Commercial - YouTube
Thse ones have it in the fine print of the overlay that nobody reads, crystal clear!
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
There is no question that much of GM's marketing was targeting the Volt as an EV, and there is no question that many people were mislead.
And don't forget the EV tax credit was based on the Volt. It's per kWh, but maxes out at the size of the Volt's small battery, so when a real EV came along the credit wasn't any higher for a much larger battery that could actually get somewhere.
I met a Volt owner once at an EV car show who swore up and down that his car had no gas engine. When I asked about the fact that he has to put gas in it, he said "There's a gas generator, but no gas engine. No spark plugs, oil, etc." Several of us were trying hard not to laugh. He was willing to bet real money that he had no gas engine. I bet him a dollar and then opened his hood and pointed out the spark plug wires (you couldn't see the actual plugs) and the dip stick for the oil. He still wasn't convinced! It was a funny moment.
And I met a guy at an EV meetup who was convinced that Obama was a mooslim intent on destroying the country. He really believed that, not that he had any actual evidence to back it up. People like to tell themselves stories and these are often fictional stories. Some people think it takes 6 kWh of grid electricity to refine a gallon of gasoline.
green1
Active Member
I'm not sure that compares. While equally wrong, it had nothing to do with the vehicle he was actually driving.
And I have met plenty of people who say to run the world on solar panels would take up more than the entire surface of our planet. And yet, I can charge my car for 2,000 miles per month and run my house 100% on panels that cover only 6% of my roof.
green1
Active Member
Do those people either sell solar panels, or run their houses off of them? if not, it's not exactly a comparable example. This isn't a thread about all the misconceptions people might have in the world from politics to solar panels, it's about vehicle drivetrain technologies, and what people and companies have been calling them, or marketing them as.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
You can not remove the traction battery from the Prius either and still drive the car because it powers the MG1 which starts the engine (there is no starter motor). No one calls it a BEV or says its not an ICE car despite that.
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Congrats, you found some Volt commercials I've never seen before (the first three). I need to watch more TV.... I'll agree that they tend to imply only battery operation. Bad GM. They were clearly trying to grab people's attention by emphasizing the rechargeable electric aspect of the car which was very novel to the general public back then (and even today). The last 2 ads are somewhat less problematic but I'll agree that GM's marketing, including TV commercials, for the Volt have been generally poor. Toyota's TV ads for the Prius are a weird mess as well. Tesla has much much better TV ads although (because?) they are made by Tesla drivers.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Your comparison might be better if that individual also knew Obama personally and met with him every day.
I think that's the point many of us are making. GM's misleading marketing reinforced the fiction that the Volt was an EV without any ICE on board, which lead to people thinking it was a $40K EV with only 40 miles of range, which did nothing to help sell Volts or promote the EV movement in general.
Possibly but if they thought it had a gas engine in it which they are used to they might have. That's where GM's advertising fell down. Nothing wrong with saying 'The world's best plug in hybrid. Drive 40 miles gas free then out gas generator gives you unlimited freedom'.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Exactly, marketing it as a Prius killer would have made much more sense. Would have avoided much negative press, such as certain news channels claiming it ran out of charge in a tunnel, and other such scare tactics making people think they would be stranded when the battery ran out.
Breezy
Member
The lead paragraph on the Chevrolet Volt webpage reads as follows:
http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html
It mentions “hybrid,” “full tank of gas” and “between fill-ups.” Neither GM nor Volt owners are pretending that the Volt doesn’t use gas.
However,the Volt is designed to operate as an EV for the first 35-53 "pure electric miles," which is why this thread has over 1300 posts.
http://www.chevrolet.com/volt-electric-car.html
It mentions “hybrid,” “full tank of gas” and “between fill-ups.” Neither GM nor Volt owners are pretending that the Volt doesn’t use gas.
However,the Volt is designed to operate as an EV for the first 35-53 "pure electric miles," which is why this thread has over 1300 posts.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Yes, now. Even GM has backed away from their early attempts to position the Volt as an EV. Glad they finally came around to my way of thinking. And yes, some Volt owners do in fact pretend the Volt doesn't use gas, as some posts in this and other threads prove.
I'm really not sure why all this posturing over the Volt. You can drive it on electricity only for quite a distance and get respectable performance and range on electricity only.
On the other hand, there are plenty of PHEVs and hybrids on the market that are idiotic. The Volt isn't one of them. The XC90 T8 for example, has a mere 9.2 kWh battery, 6.5 kWh usable, get something like 15 miles of range, but you are then using a 80 hp + 45 hp motors (can't quite sum them) to drive around 5,200 pounds. 0-60 for about 100 hp moving 5,200 pounds is likely in the 15-16 second range. That vehicle is likely to fire up the ICE a *lot*. And the price
Now, is there a distinction between the GM product and a Tesla product? I hope so, even as Tesla moves down market. I find ergonomic and control issues with GM products including their higher end Cadillacs that are, frankly, embarrassing. But the drivetrain engineering of the Volt is quite good and an excellent alternative for many that can't commit to BEVs.
On the other hand, there are plenty of PHEVs and hybrids on the market that are idiotic. The Volt isn't one of them. The XC90 T8 for example, has a mere 9.2 kWh battery, 6.5 kWh usable, get something like 15 miles of range, but you are then using a 80 hp + 45 hp motors (can't quite sum them) to drive around 5,200 pounds. 0-60 for about 100 hp moving 5,200 pounds is likely in the 15-16 second range. That vehicle is likely to fire up the ICE a *lot*. And the price
Now, is there a distinction between the GM product and a Tesla product? I hope so, even as Tesla moves down market. I find ergonomic and control issues with GM products including their higher end Cadillacs that are, frankly, embarrassing. But the drivetrain engineering of the Volt is quite good and an excellent alternative for many that can't commit to BEVs.
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