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Pure BEV Dogma

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by bonnie, Feb 26, 2012.

  1. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Again, the architecture by how the platform is designed and built, not what happens if you manage to use a narrow subset of it's capability.

    If you are going to specify a car capable of 400 miles range, 50 MPG, 160 HP, and 110 MPH top speed[1] and build a vehicle to do that, then characterize that design.

    If you want to advertise it as an EV then honestly spec what it can do as an EV: 50 miles range, 60 HP, and a 70MPH top speed.

    [1] Specifications for illustrative purposes only
     
  2. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    Very well stated. I remember vaguely that at one point Toyota marketed the Prius as, 'An Electric Car that Runs on Gas', or something to that effect. I really didn't like that characterization. Naturally, it didn't last very long as a promotion, because someone else probably noted that wasn't exactly true and stuff.

    One thing that I notice is that no matter the hybrid drivetrain configuration, it seems the electric motor is used to assist transmission of power from an ICE. Sometimes the ICE is just a generator, providing electricity to drive the electric motor. Other times, the electric motor is sandwiched between the ICE and transmission, or between the transmission and the drive wheels... somewhere. It seems that traditional automobile manufacturers are only interested in the torque that electric motors supply at low speed 0-15 MPH, or 0-30 MPH, and nothing else really. I suspect that the next move is going to be to turn the various CVT solutions into fully electrified transmissions and that there will be resistance to that, until someone is able to eek out a substantial increase in fuel economy paired with reliability.
     
  3. Red Sage

    Red Sage The Cybernetic Samurai

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    I guess it depends upon which percentage one finds more important. I like to compare the percentage of fully electric range to the overall range of a plug-in hybrid vehicle. I do understand that others prefer to compare the percentage of their own miles driven fully electric to the percentage when they use gasoline.

    EPA Comparison: BMW i3 REX, BMW 330e, Ford Fusion Energi, Chevrolet Volt

    Of these options, my last commute was barely ten miles one way, and only the BMW 330e wouldn't have gotten me there and back home on electricity all the way. Yet it is the second most expensive of these four cars, and also has the second shortest overall range of them all. Thus, it is second worst in two categories and absolutely worst otherwise. Compared to the BMWs, both the Ford and Chevrolet look like rock stars... At least, until the Tesla Model ☰ arrives.

    What I really don't like is how traditional automobile manufacturers seem to consistently make it plain that putting a plug on their cars will severely compromise them. The cars cost more and the range goes down, and typically that means the performance drops too. They want to make sure that prospective Customers are 'punished' for choosing the car with the plug. They do this in situations where it should not be necessary at all. That is the situation I rail against most when it comes to plug-in hybrids. The sole 'reward' someone may get is the ability to 'use less gas'. Compared to the possibility of using no gasoline at all, that seems like a booby prize to me.
     
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  4. Drucifer

    Drucifer Active Member

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    I will go back to what I have said before;

    Gas/Diesel ICE only is easy to define
    BEV is easy to define
    It is hybrid that gets really complicated, but for most consumers, there are only two factors:

    Since the drive train is primarily one thing and secondarily something else that is the 1st factor
    Does it have a plug or not is a 2nd factor.

    Volt: Hybrid, primarily electric with a plug
    PIP: Hybrid, primarily gas with a plug
    Prius: Hybrid, primarily gas without a plug
    i3 Rex: Hybrid, primarily electric with a plug
    Ford cMax Energi: Hybrid, primarily gas with a plug

    And so on. the only two I know that are primarily electric in architecture are Volt and i3, everything else is a gas conversion job.

    I know SAE does it differently. I know some people care about clutched in ICE drive trains. Good for them, but I don't really care.
     
  5. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Huh... I thought I'd be the first post in this thread since 2017... only to find out the last post was 18 month ago in 2016! How time flies.

    In any case, I found the professor's description in the first 60 seconds of the Volt video interesting:

     
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