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Putting some numbers on the factors that affect range

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by ChadS, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Born 2 Skydive

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    Has any 85 kw Model S owners Max Charged their cars and got 300 mile range? So far I have Max Range Charged the car twice and only received 271 Rated.
     
  2. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Odd theory...
     
  3. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    You would have to switch it to ideal to get around 300 miles.
     
  4. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    Somebody did - Zext, I believe. But he had his set to show Ideal miles, which I don't think all firmware versions allow. If you are set to use Rated miles, you should expect around 265 miles, so I assume that's what you are using.

    Ideal miles: what Tesla says the car can do in "ideal" conditions: 55mph, 70 degrees, HVAC off, flat, dry and windless. The car should do over 300 miles under these conditions.
    Rated miles: what the EPA says the car can do in "typical" conditions: 60mph, 65 degrees, HVAC on, but still flat, dry and windless. The car should do 265 miles under these conditions.
    Projected miles: what you will get if you keep driving the same way you have averaged for the last X miles. This number can vary widely depending on speed, hills, etc. But on a flat highway with cruise set, it can be a pretty good guide.

    What I'd like to see added as a display option:

    Solid miles: 2/3 of the EPA number; so 177 miles. A range you can count on (as long as you are TRYING to get there, and don't spend the whole trip locked against the speed limiter).

    Or even better:

    Percentage of battery left. Except in extreme conditions you will get at least 2 miles per percentage. In perfect conditions you might get 3 miles per percentage.
     
  5. Zextraterrestrial

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    yep. I had mine set to ideal for the first few weeks and saw 307-310 miles ideal for the 2 or 3 range charges I did then. Switched to rated currently I have seen 280 mi

    I wish I knew about the 70A in Yreka. I might have sprung for the 2nd charger just for that + Oregon and Washington and maybe Canada eh. I didn't know there were so many higher A sources up there when I had to order my car ..me sad
     
  6. aviators99

    aviators99 Model S - R140

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    Thanks for the numbers, Chad. Btw, here in South Florida, I've noted that the HVAC has cost less than you expect. On my two trips to Tampa and back, the impact was negligible, with it set to 70 degrees (about 10 below outside temperature), and the fan between 2-3 the whole time.
     
  7. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    If I understand you, that sounds about right, aviators. At 70 degrees and 60mph Tesla says HVAC is included in rated range. By 100 degrees AC should cost around 7%, but at 80 degrees I would think it would only be a percent or so (it's non-linear).
     
  8. Dianne&Doug

    Dianne&Doug New Member

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    Is this app just called MAIN? I'm in the app store, but the search yielded tons of sites...still scrolling through them.
     
  9. epley

    epley P85 VIN 693

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    Excellent post! Did you charge at each of those intervals? How long did you stay at each location? And free charging--that's pretty awesome. Which site do you use to seek out the free chargers?

    Thanks, again, neighbor!

    David

    - - - Updated - - -

    The Chargepoint and Blink Network apps for iphone tell you if your charge has stopped, if you have been disconnected, etc. They can even be set up to text you. Sounds great, but there have been a couple of times that it told me the car was not charging when it was, so the technology isn't perfect.

     
  10. Robert.Boston

    Robert.Boston Model S VIN P01536

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    PlugShare is a good site for finding charging. You can search for free chargers only from the Settings menu, as well as filtering out unhelpful chargers (e.g. Avcon paddles).
     
  11. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    I did charge at each stop; I hope to find time to put up another post about charging this week (and I'll link to it from this thread).

    When I go to new places, I typically look at recargo.com and plugshare.com to find charging stations. But when I drive from Seattle to California, I use THIS map that I created.
     
  12. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    I finally got the thread up that includes how long I charged at each stop. It includes some other information about planning road trips in general. The thread is HERE.
     
  13. mact3333

    mact3333 New Member

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    Camas, huh?....will be looking out for your car...:).




     
  14. Larry Chanin

    Larry Chanin Model S Perf Sig 1055

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    Hi Chad,

    Absolutely great posting!

    Regarding your Range vs Speed and HVAC graph, I want to be clear that I'm interpreting it correctly.

    The green line at the top is the Range vs Speed with no HVAC?

    The green shaded portion of the graph shows the effect of HVAC and the bottom of the shaded area is the Range vs Speed with the HVAC on maximum?

    Thanks.

    Larry
     
  15. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    Yup!
     
  16. Puyallup Bill

    Puyallup Bill Member

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    Effects of Elevation Change

    Just a bit of trivia.

    A couple of days ago in an effort to escape the heat, we decided on lunch at the Paradise Inn, Mt. Rainier National Park. (It was hot there, as well)

    From Puyallup WA it is 65 miles with an elevation gain of a bit over 5,400 ft. No freeway driving, max speed 55 MPH, and, of course, much slower in the park. Climate control set at 68°F, OAT 75° to 85°.

    Arrival at the Inn showed 67.4 actual miles and 99 rated miles used. On the return to Puyallup, actual miles were 66.6 and used 40 rated miles. So, for the up and down, 134 actual miles used 139 rated miles. Not bad, but I hasten to add that most of the climbing miles were at 35 MPH or less.
     
  17. Limo2soft

    Limo2soft New Member

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    On android there is also EV Range Calculator : EV Range Calculator - Android Apps on Google Play

    It takes elevation and speed limits into account and allows to set a lower speed if you want to preserve your battery.
     
  18. tamman34

    tamman34 S19572, X11164

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    I plan to drive from Boston to Charlston, SC. Any advice will help. I am driving the 85 with 19". How has the experience with using other home chargers gone?
     
  19. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    Great information, geek to geek!

    My experience on elevation is that its about 6-7 miles up and down in a Model S with me and a few bags. This has held true for me on many trips in the Colorado Rockies. Because of regen conversion losses, long, steep descents will not give everything back. The only time I don't get all of it back in my regular travels is on the west side of Wolf Creek Pass because there is a lot of regen there, typically 10 miles from the top of the pass into Pagosa. On other descents that are not so steep and there is less regen, I get everything back.

    A year or so ago, I did a from basics, potential energy calculation that also came up with 6 miles per 1,000 feet. I think I posted that on TMC then. Here is a repeat:
    1. Potential Energy = m * g * h
    2. m = 2,100 kg, g = 9.81 m/s^2, h = 305 meters (1,000 feet)
    3. 1,000 feet up or down gives you 2,100 kg * 9.81 m/s^2 * 305 meters = 6,283,305 Joules
    4. Because 3,600 Joules are in 1 W-hr, that is 1,745 W-hrs
    5. Pick your number for Wh/mi, let's use 290 Wh/mi which is pretty close to how rated miles are decremented. 1,745 Wh/290 Wh/mi = 6.02 miles.

    Thanks again for putting all of this together.
     
  20. ChadS

    ChadS Petroleum is for sissies

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    #40 ChadS, Nov 24, 2013
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
    Thanks for the numbers, Cotton. I hadn't done the math.

    Before I ever had an EV, I saw a 1st-gen RAV4-EV owner online say to figure 6 miles per 1,000 feet for that car (and interestingly enough, I think he did the same math...I should try to find that). 6 or 7 were typically used for the Roadster. Those numbers seemed to work well for me with both of those cars. The Model S is significantly heavier, and somebody on these forums (I don't remember who) said that a Tesla employee said to use 10. So I have just used 10, and it's worked great for me and at least a couple of other owners. But I will try to take a closer look the next time I do a trip with elevation...the hard part is pulling out all the other factors (including how loaded the car is).

    Due to motor and inverter inefficiencies, I would expect consumption to be higher than 6 miles/1k'. But only by about 20%.
     

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