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Putting some numbers on the factors that affect range

ChadS

Last tank of gas: March 2009
Jul 16, 2009
3,320
2,667
Redmond, WA
On good days, you can definitely make it if you keep your speed down. But part of the problem is, like AWDTesla hints, that you can't predict the bad days - because a day that looks like a good day might have, say, surprise headwinds.

If it was a nice day and I was doing it once I might try the 200 mile trip. But I wouldn't do it on a regular basis (at least not in a 70) without a known place to stop along the way. Not all leave as much buffer as I do; but I want to make sure I never run out and in fact I don't even want to worry about whether or not I will make it while I am driving. If you do fall short, it usually won't be by much; so if there is a charger you can count on that is, say, 75-80% of the way you could use that only in emergencies, and you shouldn't have to be there too long.
 

hiroshiy

Supporting Member
Apr 6, 2013
2,377
1,476
Tokyo, Japan
I live in Greensboro, North Carolina, where the weather is moderate for 8 months of the year. We have ordered a S70 to be delivered late May. My long distance travel in the Tesla will normally be about 180 miles one way (Asheville) or 200 miles round trip (Charlotte). The 200 mile one way trip has an elevation climb or drop (depending on the direction of travel) of 1,200 feet. We will be doing interstate driving with the heat or AC on depending on the weather.
The Tesla site says we can expect a range of 215 miles at 70 mph at 70 degrees (down to 195 at 32 degrees) with the AC or heat on. Are those estimates acheivable under normal circumstances? The margin is pretty small on both trips. In addition, there are no Superchargers and very few other type chargers in the 180 miles between Greensboro and Asheville. Is it reasonable to believe we will actually get a 200 mile range on the interstate?
I think your rated range is 240 miles on full charge, correct? In summer, without heat and without significant headwind, you can do that trip without any problem as others noted. However in 32F you will get minus 20-30% less rated range:
20% 200 miles
30% 184 miles
So, if it's really cold like less than 32F, you won't reach 200 mile destination. If it's a bit warmer, you need to reduce the speed to 65 or 60 mph to achieve 200 mile trip. If I were you, if it's snowing I'd find a charge in between absolutely. If it's not, research emergency charging spots in advance, start with 60 mph with AC at comfortable setting. If you think it's cutting close, either you turn off your AC (if weather permits) or stop to charge. Once you are confident that you can reach destination you can speed up to 70 (but I don't recommend 75).
 

f1tifosi

New Member
May 8, 2016
1
0
44202
Does anyone know if the new ('17) Model S front fascia has improved the vehicle's drag coefficient and thus contribute to a higher range? Range ratings have not changed on the website but is it a matter of time someone looks at the new cars efficiency in carving through wind?
 

dweeks

Member
Aug 26, 2014
242
73
Flagstaff, AZ
I have a 90D...took delivery a month ago. I accepted the car, and drove it home from the Scottsdale service center, and that night did a range charge, as I had a long trip the next day.

303 miles. But that was the first and last time I have seen 303. Most range charges now give me 297-298 miles.
 
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X Fan

Supporting Member
Sep 29, 2015
2,379
6,082
Naples, FL & Cary, NC
I live in Greensboro, North Carolina, where the weather is moderate for 8 months of the year. We have ordered a S70 to be delivered late May. My long distance travel in the Tesla will normally be about 180 miles one way (Asheville) or 200 miles round trip (Charlotte). The 200 mile one way trip has an elevation climb or drop (depending on the direction of travel) of 1,200 feet. We will be doing interstate driving with the heat or AC on depending on the weather.
The Tesla site says we can expect a range of 215 miles at 70 mph at 70 degrees (down to 195 at 32 degrees) with the AC or heat on. Are those estimates acheivable under normal circumstances? The margin is pretty small on both trips. In addition, there are no Superchargers and very few other type chargers in the 180 miles between Greensboro and Asheville. Is it reasonable to believe we will actually get a 200 mile range on the interstate?

Longer trip to Asheville via Charlotte but North Charlotte supercharger would clearly be of benefit....
 

ZBB

Emperor
Feb 27, 2013
1,546
269
Scottsdale
The Tesla website does not show it, but I've read that the refreshed 90 is 303 rated miles of range. None of the news articles I've read mention the 70, but if the new front is the reason for the increase then it seems reasonable that the 70 would also realize a slight gain as well.

Tesla’s updated Model S just broke an incredible barrier for EVs

The Model S configurator shows the refreshed 70 (Rwd, not D) with 234 miles of range. The pre-facelift was 230...
 

Tony8489

Member
Oct 17, 2015
261
346
I have had my S90D for 2 months and 4499 miles. ChadS' speed and altitude factors have been reasonably accurate for the 3 trips to Mammoth during that time, the last one coming home via Yosemite.

I looked at Matteo's online calculator but it has not been updated for the chargers opening in 2016. These include Burbank (surrogate for home, just 3 miles away), Mammoth, Fresno and Buttonwillow.
 

Kensiko

Member
Mar 21, 2016
105
38
Quebec, Canada
Really interesting thread. We had a similar summary on PriusChat of how to minimize consumptions, it's a bit different but the idea is the same.

What about tires guys? Do you all have recommended Tesla LRR tires ?
 

DrManhattan

Member
Nov 1, 2014
252
128
Los Angeles
This is not perfect math, but I did my first road trip in the 60S and my furthest Supercharger distance was 165 miles, and I had about 10 miles remaining. It was about 100 degrees out, and I drove 85mph most of the way. I feel if I keep it to 80 or below, I can do 180 miles no problem depending on elevation/weather of course.
 

Kensiko

Member
Mar 21, 2016
105
38
Quebec, Canada
This is not perfect math, but I did my first road trip in the 60S and my furthest Supercharger distance was 165 miles, and I had about 10 miles remaining. It was about 100 degrees out, and I drove 85mph most of the way. I feel if I keep it to 80 or below, I can do 180 miles no problem depending on elevation/weather of course.

Hey can you tell us the speed for supercharging a S60 with S75 battery ? What is the power draw when close to 100% ?
 

ldgrmnmc

Member
Feb 24, 2016
61
12
Pike Road, AL
I apologize that this has been probably answered multiple times, but with all other variables steady, will my S70D get better range on long interstate trip with or without extensive use of autopilot? Thanks
 

mblakele

beep! beep! 💉
Mar 7, 2016
1,691
5,296
SF Bay Area
I apologize that this has been probably answered multiple times, but with all other variables steady, will my S70D get better range on long interstate trip with or without extensive use of autopilot? Thanks

If you try to beat AP on efficiency you probably can: you have better sensors and more computing power. But if you don't make any special effort, AP will probably be more efficient than you.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Mar 8, 2012
19,570
21,950
Texas
I apologize that this has been probably answered multiple times, but with all other variables steady, will my S70D get better range on long interstate trip with or without extensive use of autopilot? Thanks
If you have enough practice, you can beat autopilot every time. The key is enough practice so that doing the efficient thing doesn't require much thinking on your part. All automated systems try to keep the same speed, so they use extra energy to do this. You can slow down and speed up when appropriate. This isn't a skill you learn in a week though.
 

Kensiko

Member
Mar 21, 2016
105
38
Quebec, Canada
Do you have driving tricks to get the best efficiency ? Ex staying around 20 kW ? Accelerating quickly or slowly ? I would need to check the rear motor efficiency curve for my S60.
 

jerry33

(S85-3/2/13 traded in) X LR: F2611##-3/27/20
Mar 8, 2012
19,570
21,950
Texas
Do you have driving tricks to get the best efficiency ? Ex staying around 20 kW ? Accelerating quickly or slowly ? I would need to check the rear motor efficiency curve for my S60.
The general rules I use are:

1. Keep some air in your tires and be sure they are properly aligned. Low air pressure really increases rolling resistance--even two or three psi are noticeable. (Not to mention that lower air pressure makes the wheels more susceptible to potholes and other impact damages.)

2. The slower you accelerate the more efficient you will be. Use the power metre to monitor your acceleration. Don't bother with the energy graph, it's too far behind real time to help. (The way the power metre has changed in 7.x for AP cars is just awful for this because the first marking is at 75 kW. If you are using 75 kW of power, I sincerely hope your eyes are on the road, not on the instrument cluster.)

3. The longer it takes to come to a stop, the more efficient you will be. Be light on the regeneration whenever possible. At stop signals, it's often possible to stop slow enough that the light turns green before you reach it. (Time spent waiting for the light to change does not get you to your destination any faster--although many drive as if it does.)

4. The higher the speed you cruise at, the more energy is wasted by just pushing air. Five mph makes a noticeable difference in energy usage but not in elapsed time.

Example: A 500 mile trip at 65 mph takes ~7:45, at 60 it's ~8:20. To each add thirty minutes for the extra time spent at lunch (while charging) and 1:15 for charging (Total charging time will be ~1:45). Convert to minutes it's 570 (9:30) vs. 605 (10:08) or ~6% difference in overall travel time. This is actually the worst case because by driving more efficiently, the non-lunch charging stops will be slightly shorter (I don't know how to accurately calculate that.) Bottom line is that either uses up about a day, so the extra speed doesn't buy you anything (other than maybe some range anxiety).

The plan on a trip is: Start with a range charge. Then at each non-meal stop charge only enough to get to the next charging stop plus a bit extra just in case. At meal stops charge for the entire time you're there. This method reduces the amount of charging time that you're doing nothing but waiting. Last year, driving from DFW to Seattle, most of our non-meal stops were 15 minutes or less and the car was usually ready by the time we got back from a pit stop. Note this is for travel in moderate or hot weather. Cold weather will increase the energy usage resulting in longer charging times.

Note that if you are going for shortest time, rather than for best efficiency, then drive as fast as you can between charging stops. (You can use EV Trip Planner to get some numbers for this.) I prefer to go for most efficiency because it's more relaxing which makes the trip more enjoyable.

5. Losing a few mph going uphill will make you more efficient.

6. Gaining a few mph going down hill will also make you more efficient, but watch it because there is a point at which you're just using the additional speed to push air rather than gaining distance from it. There is a point where the amount of energy you lose by pushing air is greater than the inefficiency of regeneration.

7. Sometimes it's possible to choose a route that is more efficient. This works best on a route you travel frequently as you can become more efficient as you get to know the route.

8. A route with fewer stops is almost always going to be more efficient than a route with multiple stops.

9. Road surface makes a difference (not that you can do much about it except choose a different, possibly smoother road).

10. You almost always get better efficiency on roads that you travel regularly rather than on unfamiliar roads.

11. On vacation trips, up the tire pressure to compensate for the extra load and speed.

12. On road trips, occasionally check the trip graph to see how you are doing compared to the estimate.
 

Dennisj00

Member
Aug 25, 2016
264
953
North of Charlotte, NC
My dad taught me in the 60s to drive like I had an egg between the accelerator and my foot. Works pretty good with an EV. We've had 2 Leafs since 2011 and now with the model S, I'm getting 105-120% efficiency in Teslafi and still having fun driving it. Wife isn't, she treats her badly!

I've been really surprised and pleased that range isn't affected too differently between driving at 50, 60 or 70.
 

scottf200

Active Member
Feb 3, 2013
3,832
3,404
Chicagoland ModelX S603
I woefully misjudged how much extra range I needed on a leg of a trip a couple weeks ago when it was 16F. It was a rural 55 MPH road and I ended up driving 40 MPH on 1/2 of it. Info: Model X P90D. 2 adults and luggage. 45 lbs in 20" tires. No rain/snow. I was traveling from Macomb, IL to the Normal IL Supercharger which I've done several times. It is 106 miles and I left Macomb with about 135 miles (via a 14-50 plug). From past experience the built-in Tesla Trip Planner *always* wants me to travel southeast to Springfield IL regardless if I could make Normal. (seems to want to do this even if I would have 10% left!). I would *love* a way to force it to go to a specific supercharger so you could watch the trip graph and your battery percentage and leave when it was at 10% (summer) or 20% (winter).

Wanting to learn more and contribute so others could use Tesla data for tools or charts...
I used Model S data via Model S | Tesla and the Range Per Charge area to gather data for all the listed cars at different temps (90F A/C, 70F, 50F heat, 32F heat, 0F heat) and speeds (55,60,65,70). I wish Model X data was available.

My spreadsheet also has some tabs where I used 3rd Order Polynomial Trendline formulas to generated data between 0F and 90F for the different speeds. That formula was new to me. It is standard and all over the internet.

Link: Temp effects Tesla Model S part 2

Here are the results grouped by MPH (55,60,65,70) where the green is as it taken from the Tesla page:
i<dot>imgur.com/qcaMN4N.png
qcaMN4N.png


Here are the results grouped by Model S (60, 60D,75,75D,90D,P100D) where the green is as it taken from the Tesla page:
i<dot>imgur.com/PHISLOP.png
PHISLOP.png


i<dot>imgur.com/3kQ9yED.png
3kQ9yED.png

<snip>
 

FlatSix911

Porsche 918 Hybrid
Jun 15, 2015
6,502
5,910
Silicon Valley
Scott, thanks for sharing your range data. :cool:
I have found that you can use the Model S range tool by subtracting 10-12% of the range for the Model X.
Other factors to increase range ... maximum tire pressure and seat heaters vs. cabin heat in cold weather.

I woefully misjudged how much extra range I needed on a leg of a trip a couple weeks ago when it was 16F. It was a rural 55 MPH road and I ended up driving 40 MPH on 1/2 of it. Info: Model X P90D. 2 adults and luggage. 45 lbs in 20" tires. No rain/snow. I was traveling from Macomb, IL to the Normal IL Supercharger which I've done several times. It is 106 miles and I left Macomb with about 135 miles (via a 14-50 plug). From past experience the built-in Tesla Trip Planner *always* wants me to travel southeast to Springfield IL regardless if I could make Normal. (seems to want to do this even if I would have 10% left!). I would *love* a way to force it to go to a specific supercharger so you could watch the trip graph and your battery percentage and leave when it was at 10% (summer) or 20% (winter).

Wanting to learn more and contribute so others could use Tesla data for tools or charts...
I used Model S data via Model S | Tesla and the Range Per Charge area to gather data for all the listed cars at different temps (90F A/C, 70F, 50F heat, 32F heat, 0F heat) and speeds (55,60,65,70). I wish Model X data was available.

My spreadsheet also has some tabs where I used 3rd Order Polynomial Trendline formulas to generated data between 0F and 90F for the different speeds. That formula was new to me. It is standard and all over the internet.

Link: Temp effects Tesla Model S part 2

Here are the results grouped by MPH (55,60,65,70) where the green is as it taken from the Tesla page:
i<dot>imgur.com/qcaMN4N.png
qcaMN4N.png


Here are the results grouped by Model S (60, 60D,75,75D,90D,P100D) where the green is as it taken from the Tesla page:
i<dot>imgur.com/PHISLOP.png
PHISLOP.png


i<dot>imgur.com/3kQ9yED.png
3kQ9yED.png

<snip>
 
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