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PW + Charging overnight --- and power goes out at 1AM

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So this happened a few weeks ago......SDGE with PV and PW2 and Model 3 that charges overnight.
Typically set on cost savings with a reserve 25%.

Well power went out at 1AM. And our Model 3 basically drained the entire PW2.

So -- how can Tesla address this issue where one tech item essentially breaks the other's purpose if you happen to be sleeping?

It's a perfect reason to have Tesla come up with the logical solution === allow Tesla cars to be a backup source to their PW2. ie build a interconnect for a V2H support via the PW2.
 
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Best way is not to have the HPWC on the PW. Not sure why they don’t address the basic issue in design as often the car(s) will wake up at night and want a little or a lot of power.

Yes, a hardware fix to have that circuit be disconnected when the PW is active would be great but that’s an engineering addition. Wonder if gateway 2 would/does have any similar capability with it’s added breakers, etc. I doubt it, I think it’s just a local load center.

(What we do is have the HPWC circuit off the PWs and then in a prolonged outage with solar running, we would use a UMC to a dryer plug to charge as needed.)

Not sure regulations allow V2H at this time. Not so? And of course that would still need major gateway changes.
 
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One person's issue is another person's feature. "But we lost power last night and the car didn't complete charging, so I couldn't get to work today"
Was the HPWC in place when the PW was installed or installed later. If later, then I say that you had a big power consumption change that wasn't calculated. If before, well, I'd complain to the folks who did the quote and install why the HPWC was put on the PW.
 
I think that the point is that the solution to this problem does not require any hardware or circuit breakers, etc. The Tesla App knows all that it needs to known to handle this situation properly. And it could be augmented by preferences, e.g. charge the car at night from the PW2 during a power failure?

During the day when solar is available and the car is plugged in, excess solar could be used to charge the car with the right number of amps rather than having the PW2 raise the frequency and shut down the solar if the PW2 is getting full or being charged at a great rate than it could handle.
 
I think that the point is that the solution to this problem does not require any hardware or circuit breakers, etc. The Tesla App knows all that it needs to known to handle this situation properly.

Does it, though? What if you're plugged-in at a nearby location that didn't lose power? Wouldn't want your car to stop charging then. Seems to me the only way to do it reliably would be to have direct comms between the HPWC and Gateway so that they could directly coordinate with each other quickly (seems like any loop through Tesla's servers would probably be too slow to do things like managing the load on a solar inverter anyway). But yes, while I don't own an EV so I have no experience in this, logically it makes sense that the Gateway should be able to tell the HPWC how much it can (should) draw, to allow things like being an extra sink for islanded solar, or not draining the PW when the grid is down (without having to be on the non-backup side), etc. Ideally it would apply to more things also, as you might want to change the behavior of your thermostat/AC based on grid/PW status, etc. Hopefully some day things will all be that smart, and the Gateway seems like the perfect coordinator for such a system since it's gathering all the right data to make an informed decision.
 
I told our PW installers specifically to NOT put the HPWC or the house heat pumps on the PW circuits. They didn't follow my instructions and had to come back to correct their mistake once I showed them in writing my request and their confirmation that these circuits would not be backed up. Obviously, a 5-ton and 3-ton AC/heat system and 2 HPWC's cannot be powered by much less than a half dozen or more Powerwalls.
 
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Thankfully my electrician had good sense to keep the HPWC independent from the Powerwall when he installed the HPWC after Powerwall installation completed the day before. With HPWC being fully independent, he chose not to connect the CTs. EV can be charged by many other means on demand (e.g. unused NEMA 5-15, 5-20 or 14-50 in the garage).

Tesla Design Center couldn't backup the air conditioning due to incompatibility, but electrician (brilliant) did connect the CT to the A/C to monitor so the Powerwalls can offset A/C usage when the grid is up.
 
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Take a look at this thread on Twitter: Erik on Twitter

teslainventory May 22

@elonmusk I had a Powerwall issue recently. Any way to get more integration between powerwalls & the cars/wall connectors? That way when power goes out I can have a setting to not charge cars and drain the Powerwalls? Would be super appreciated. https://youtu.be/nByzZpGqspc

  1. Elon Musk‏Verified account @elonmusk May 22


    Replying to @teslainventory
    Coming soon
So it looks like they plan to have a software option to link your car to your Powerwall and let you decide if you want to charge during a power outage or not.
 
If you can tell your car to stop charging via the Tesla app, it should be possible to use that API to monitor when the PWs go off-grid, and tell your car(s) to stop charging.

API should be here: Charging

I currently use the API to roughly automate my PWs for multiple, daily peak/off-peak periods.
 
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I can currently do most of what is needed within the Tesla app in terms of monitoring the state of the grid power, the powerwall SOC, and the solar output. I can also stop and start the cars charging. What I can't do right now is change the charging amperage, but hopefully that is in the API. So this would seem to programable within the Tesla app right now.
 
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@MP3Mike - Thanks for the reference. That was back in May. Hopefully coming soon is closer than further. That's exactly an easy program fix since our App clearly is able to tell backup is in progress, all it needs to do is make sure cars in the app don't charge and drain the powerwall.

Longer term wish -- is the ability for the Tesla Model 3 be a backup to the powerwall for extended power outages. Would like to add 60+kwh to the house if really needed.
 
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Longer term wish -- is the ability for the Tesla Model 3 be a backup to the powerwall for extended power outages. Would like to add 60+kwh to the house if really needed.

That isn't likely to happen any time soon, if ever. For starters doing so voids your battery warranty unless they change it. And you would need extra hardware, in the form of a HPWC with integrated inverters to be able to get the power out of the pack and into your house. If they had ever made the DC version of the Powerwall this would have been much easier, and the DC Powerwall could have charged the car as well.

Elon has said it just isn't the right use, and I agree. The last thing you need to is be powering your house during an outage from your car and then need to drive somewhere in am emergency to find you don't have enough energy left in your car to get to your destination, or a working charger.
 
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For my Powerwall installation, the NEMA 14-50 circuit for my car and my A/C is not backed up ... but when the grid is operational, the A/C and the NEMA can drain the powerwall. As my primary intent was to get the Powerwall for emergency backup, I have had to play with quite a few settings to allow the Powerwall to be used actively but also have enough for backup if needed. I originally thought the NEMA would be completely independent from the Powerwall.

For the Powerwall I use a customized/balanced setting with 65% reserved for power outages. I have edited the price shedule to say that off peak is overnight 10:00 PM to 7:30 AM. I believe this results in the grid being used in preference to the powerwall if the car is charging during this time interval. I then have my cars set to charge after 10:30 pm.

It’s not great and its more trouble than I thought it would be. Tesla has told me that the way the NEMA circuit interacts with the Powerwall is correct. Does that make sense? Is there a better way to configure this?
 
When we added the Tesla charger to our solar system with two Powerwall II’s, we got two different recommendation from two different electrical contractors. One said to leave the charger outside the ”Tesla loop” (PowerWalls, Gateway, panels, inverter) while the other said put it inside but add a shunt to the charger circuit that would detect when power was out and stop charging the Tesla so as to avoid draining the Powerwalls during a power outage when they arguably are the most needed.

Unfortunately, the contractor informed us that they changed their mind and came up with the brilliant solution to install the charger outside the loop. We now have no way of monitoring (with Tesla app) real-time charge draw. We fake it by waiting until PowerWalls are fully charged before charging Tesla, but that doesn’t work all the time—for eg, cloudy day or day when we’re using the car at those perfect times. And it means we do all the observation/calc work.

Out local Tesla genius has informed me that there is a requested app feature called “Driving on Sunshine” and that we should all write to Tesla requesting that this feature be added. Then we would switch our charging circuits back inside the Tesla loop and the app would see the charger as a new load center and monitor all other elements, hopefully with some user adjusted preferences like Storm Watch and Battery Reserve, to let the algorithm do the observation for us. Fir those of you who are already there, it would solve that problem.

Currently, I guesstimate the timing based on cloud cover and use the onboard feature to set time if charging. For example, on a sunny summer day, our PowerWalls will usually too off by 11:30am so I set the Tesla to charge after noon. On a cloudy summer day, it’s around 2 pm instead. But it would be nice to not have to think about it each day and have the app which is pretty darn good handle this function too.

Our challenge here is that unlike our LA DWP, on Maui the power company does not buy back excess power that you generate at the same rate for which they sell it to you. Actually, in LA which switched to optional TOU meter and we get paid more fir the power we generate than fir the power we buy. In Maui, It’s either zero, or about half what you pay. So in LA, they charge more to use power during peak loads midday, which is great for home solar because they pay you highest for excess power when you’re generating the most and charge you the lowest when you’re using in the non demand night hours. . In Maui, they claim that the most power is used at night, and therefore charge you the most when we’re using our chargers and all other appliances except AC (we actually have no AC) and pay you the least when we’re generating power.

In the meantime, everyone please write to your Tesla rep requesting that the Drive on Sunshine function be added to the app. For most of us, this would complete Musk’s vision of the most efficient use of solar power to EV power, and not cause us (in Maui) to burn diesel to generate power for our wonderful EV’s when we’ve also invested in both solar and PowerWalls to do our part!
 
Take a look at this thread on Twitter: Erik on Twitter


So it looks like they plan to have a software option to link your car to your Powerwall and let you decide if you want to charge during a power outage or not.

The option might be to set a charge level that you want to reach once charging starts. This same thinking might, but probably doesn't, apply to one who wants to store cheap nighttime power in a Powerwall for more expensive daytime use, now that the Powerwall has Time-based control.
 
My EV charging circuits are outside the Gateway in my main panel, so they are not backed up. When the grid goes down, those circuits are dead. That is fine with me. When my Powerwall system was first installed, the Grid measurement was oblivious to the circuits outside the Gateway because the Grid CTs (Current Transformers) were factory installed on the grid input to the Gateway's switch. I opened a case with the installer after I got Advanced Time Based Control (my system is so old that I had it for several months before that feature was released) and told them that I wanted the Powerwalls to be able to offset the loads on those circuits. They sent out a technician with wires to extend the Grid CT leads so that they could be moved from the Gateway to the main feed immediately after my main breaker. The app now sees my EV charging loads and Time Based Control lets the grid supply that usage because I have my cars set to charge during Off-Peak hours. If there is a power outage, the cars will not drain the Powerwalls. However, if I really do need to charge during Peak hours, the Powerwalls will discharge to offset that load so I don't have to pay $0.54/kWh.

The only time this arrangement causes problems is if I'm testing the Powerwall system by turning off the breaker feeding the Gateway to simulate a power outage, but there is still usage in my main panel. The data collected doesn't make sense and the app shows strange data in the Power Flow diagram and the usage charts.
 
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So this happened a few weeks ago......SDGE with PV and PW2 and Model 3 that charges overnight.
Typically set on cost savings with a reserve 25%.

Well power went out at 1AM. And our Model 3 basically drained the entire PW2.

So -- how can Tesla address this issue where one tech item essentially breaks the other's purpose if you happen to be sleeping?

It's a perfect reason to have Tesla come up with the logical solution === allow Tesla cars to be a backup source to their PW2. ie build a interconnect for a V2H support via the PW2.
REMEMBER --NO DEAL if you don't sign up for "Time of Use" with friendly SDGE!!! They changed ALL rates march 2018 - 12 noon is same as 12 midnight! you only help THEM if you keep off the grid --- UNLESS YOU SIGN UP FOR A NEW PLAN!! expensive lesson for conservative energy user me :(