PW's discharge rate during "Grid Services" event.

[solarAddict]

I'm in MA and my PW is enrolled into "NGrid Connected Solutions" where they can discharge PWs into grid during peak demand hours. Yesterday was on on these days. I noticed in the morning that all generated by the array feed to charge PWs (and my house is switched to grid - already was not happy about that). When PWs were fully charged solar switched back to supporting the house. Then I got carried away and when checked the app later in the evening I noticed that PWs were discharged to grid for 2 hours with rare 10kW.
Is this normal? I dont' remember seeing anywhere that PW is capable to output 10kW for 2 hours straight..

Looks like today is another "event' day as they call it. I'm going to check out PWs during the discharge cycle for sure.

 

[power.saver]

I'm in MA and my PW is enrolled into "NGrid Connected Solutions" where they can discharge PWs into grid during peak demand hours. Yesterday was on on these days. I noticed in the morning that all generated by the array feed to charge PWs (and my house is switched to grid - already was not happy about that). When PWs were fully charged solar switched back to supporting the house. Then I got carried away and when checked the app later in the evening I noticed that PWs were discharged to grid for 2 hours with rare 10kW.
Is this normal? I dont' remember seeing anywhere that PW is capable to output 10kW for 2 hours straight..

Looks like today is another "event' day as they call it. I'm going to check out PWs during the discharge cycle for sure.

Yes, each PW can output 5kW continuous, so 10kW total is okay for your 2 PW setup.

What was your SOC at then end of this? 10kW for 2 hours would have probably brought them down to about 25%

 

[holeydonut]

It's cool to see this in action... in a way that seems mostly beneficial to both the grid operator and you the homeowner. Hopefully they are reimbursing you some flat fee for this or giving you better NEM credit for the export you did at 4pm to 6pm.

If the utilities worked with homeowners to improve grid stability instead of actively trying to stab homeowners in the back with wacky NEM fees and all sorts of red tape / BS ... what you're showing is a great example of what some policymakers are trying to encourage since you helped the grid be more stable.

Each Powerwall should be able to export 5kW, so your 10kW total export across two Powerwalls seems in line with expectations. 2 Hours straight just means you dumped 20kWh of your 26-ish kWh of storage. You were left with 6kWh of backup power. Hopefully you're allowed to tweak this reserve setting in case you don't think 6 kWh is enough for your own resiliency.

I'm also guessing that your "peak time" rates do not last long past 6pm. Like from 6pm to 8pm, your house probably used energy from the grid. This energy could be the most expensive (peak time) so it'd be weird if you were exporting at 4pm at a lower cost than what you may have to import at 6pm.

PG&E charges semi-peak and on-peak from 3pm through to midnight, which is why I do not want to participate in this type of program. I can barely use my own Powerwalls to get through the 3pm to midnight daily time; exporting energy back to PG&E in a manner I cannot control isn't worth the few bucks they offer.

 

[solarAddict]

Doh. Thank you! It never occurred to me that 5 x2 =10

When I checked in was at 18% , the min I set for back up. But it was later in the eve. So I cannot get the precise number at the end of event..

 

[solarAddict]

It's cool to see this in action... in a way that seems mostly beneficial to both the grid operator and you the homeowner. Hopefully they are reimbursing you some flat fee for this or giving you better NEM credit for the export you did at 4pm to 6pm.

If the utilities worked with homeowners to improve grid stability instead of actively trying to stab homeowners in the back with wacky NEM fees and all sorts of red tape / BS ... what you're showing is a great example of what some policymakers are trying to encourage since you helped the grid be more stable.

Each Powerwall should be able to export 5kW, so your 10kW total export across two Powerwalls seems in line with expectations. 2 Hours straight just means you dumped 20kWh of your 26-ish kWh of storage. You were left with 6kWh of backup power. Hopefully you're allowed to tweak this reserve setting in case you don't think 6 kWh is enough for your own resiliency.

I'm also guessing that your "peak time" rates do not last long past 6pm. Like from 6pm to 8pm, your house probably used energy from the grid. This energy could be the most expensive (peak time) so it'd be weird if you were exporting at 4pm at a lower cost than what you may have to import at 6pm.

PG&E charges semi-peak and on-peak from 3pm through to midnight, which is why I do not want to participate in this type of program. I can barely use my own Powerwalls to get through the 3pm to midnight daily time; exporting energy back to PG&E in a manner I cannot control isn't worth the few bucks they offer.

I'm happy to see it resolved
We don't have peak/off peak rates here, but the program specifies what time and how many times and for how long they can discharge your battery to the grid. They provide the flat fee payment per season if I'm not mistaken.

"In the Summer, batteries will be called:
June - September
2pm - 7pm
No more than 60 times
A maximum of 3 hours per event"

 

[wjgjr]

I'm happy to see it resolved
We don't have peak/off peak rates here, but the program specifies what time and how many times and for how long they can discharge your battery to the grid. They provide the flat fee payment per season if I'm not mistaken.

"In the Summer, batteries will be called:
June - September
2pm - 7pm
No more than 60 times
A maximum of 3 hours per event"

As I understand the program, it is a flat payment of $225 per kW (not kWh, and also before Tesla's cut) averaged over the course of the summer, so it is worth at least $1.25/kWh, assuming all 60 events occur and all last 3 hours (180 hours total.) If there are fewer or shorter events, it is worth more. So, definitely a good payment rate, and along with the other incentives available for PWs, can help create a situation where the PWs pay for themselves.

According to the Tesla Connected Solutions page, they will not go below 20% capacity (and will not discharge during storm watch.) It is possible that refers to the true capacity (which can be seen via the API) and not the displayed capacity (which is seen in the app and is always lower.) So that tends to line up with the 18% number you saw. It all does mean that the battery cannot discharge at 5 kW for the full 3 hours (since it is limited to 80% of the 13.5 kWh capacity - 10.8 kWh.) But, since the hours are during sunlight, if you can generate excess solar during this time as well, it would be possible to continue discharging the entire time. Given the value of the exports is presumably many times the cost of buying electricity from the grid, it would make sense for the system to do everything it can to get you to 100% before any event, including drawing from the grid in the morning while refilling the PWs, and then discharge 5 kW per PW for as long as it can manage to do so during the event.

 

[holeydonut]

As I understand the program, it is a flat payment of $225 per kW (not kWh, and also before Tesla's cut) averaged over the course of the summer, so it is worth at least $1.25/kWh, assuming all 60 events occur and all last 3 hours (180 hours total.)

Lol what... PG&E offered me $100 (that's it... just $100).

If it were $225 per kW of export (well it's more like $150 since PW's only have like 2 hours of export duration), I feel like that'd change my tune pretty fast on this type of centrally managed load balancing program.

Hell H2ofun would get like $3,750 per year on this program (assuming 2 hours export duration of 5x Powerwalls) if it were offered in NorCal... on top of his batteries being free to begin with lol.

 

[h2ofun]

Lol what... PG&E offered me $100 (that's it... just $100).

If it were $225 per kW of export (well it's more like $150 since PW's only have like 2 hours of export duration), I feel like that'd change my tune pretty fast on this type of centrally managed load balancing program.

Hell H2ofun would get like $3,750 per year on this program (assuming 2 hours export duration of 5x Powerwalls) if it were offered in NorCal... on top of his batteries being free to begin with lol.

Could never do that in the winter!

 

[jakestgermain]

I received $2900 last year for 2 powerwalls in this program. I think there was 38 times they called for energy.

 

[jakestgermain]

I'm in MA and my PW is enrolled into "NGrid Connected Solutions" where they can discharge PWs into grid during peak demand hours. Yesterday was on on these days. I noticed in the morning that all generated by the array feed to charge PWs (and my house is switched to grid - already was not happy about that). When PWs were fully charged solar switched back to supporting the house. Then I got carried away and when checked the app later in the evening I noticed that PWs were discharged to grid for 2 hours with rare 10kW.
Is this normal? I dont' remember seeing anywhere that PW is capable to output 10kW for 2 hours straight..

Looks like today is another "event' day as they call it. I'm going to check out PWs during the discharge cycle for sure.

What's the total amount you sent to the grid yesterday? I sent 17.8

 

[holeydonut]

Could never do that in the winter!

Historically, these "we need powahhh" events are usually only summertime events triggered by high AC usage. I don't think the "Rush Hour Rewards" program with PG&E ever had an occurrence during the colder months.

I guess if the entire West Coast ever had the problem that Texas experienced on Valentine's Day, then there's a chance CAISO will need to pull on such a program... but that's like super rare.

For now, California can turn to natural gas and imports from other states to manage demand in the Winter. It's not like you're going to participate in the program anyway... they're offering $100 regardless of kW size or kWh capacity. Lames.

 

[holeydonut]

I received $2900 last year for 2 powerwalls in this program. I think there was 38 times they called for energy.

Oh wow, you got the full rebate even though you could only discharge 2 hours instead of 3 hours during the events? That's like... amazeballs. Why aren't more people in your area getting these batteries? hah.

 

[gpez]

Oh wow, you got the full rebate even though you could only discharge 2 hours instead of 3 hours during the events? That's like... amazeballs. Why aren't more people in your area getting these batteries? hah.

That would require the things to be physically available for delivery

 

[solarAddict]

I received $2900 last year for 2 powerwalls in this program. I think there was 38 times they called for energy.

Wow, that's encouraging. I'm curious when you get payments, one per season, per year? My system had been used a couple time in January but I got nothing yet, even last month I received an erroneous message from Tesla and follow-up apologies that stated "This message is to inform you that we are currently working on your ConnectedSolutions winter incentive. In an effort to get the payment information into the system, we may have inadvertently trigged some email automation. We are working quickly to have winter incentive checks sent out, and expect that they will arrive in the coming weeks. " It was 2 weeks ago.

What's the total amount you sent to the grid yesterday? I sent 17.8

11.7 accordingly to the app. - yesterday. 11.2 today (wow, exactly 3 hours 3:45- 6:45 pm) - just finished as PW's level reached 20%

 

[jhn_]

Yeah our three Powerwalls contributed yesterday and today as well. Like @solarAddict at first we didn’t like that our power switch to grid but during an event to max solar charge the PWs. But we’ve gotten used to it since the economics of running off grid power at $0.24/kWh only to sell it back later at well more than that does make it worth it in the end. Plus, with full net metering we have enough solar send to the grid other days to cover these “event” days from Connected Solutions.

24.3 kWh yesterday and 20.9 kWh today sent to the grid from our three PWs over each event that lasted a touch over two hours each time.

 

[adspguy]

Here are the events I had yesterday and today in MA on Eversource Connectedsolutions. They took 30kWh each day, over 2 hours yesterday and 3 today. i have 3 powerwalls and they discharged at 15kW yesterday and at around 10kW today.

 

[solarAddict]

Here are the events I had yesterday and today in MA on Eversource Connectedsolutions. They took 30kWh each day, over 2 hours yesterday and 3 today. i have 3 powerwalls and they discharged at 15kW yesterday and at around 10kW today.

I'm curious why you app doesn't show the icon tor "Grid Services", or is it just outside of screen shot?

 

[adspguy]

It seems that I do not get the grid services in the app. Also, when discharging, it doesn't show the powerwall to grid arrow.

 

[daveh85]

I see something similar. It’s pretty cool and covers the cost of the PWs in the short run.

 

[Will792]

Do you find it amusing that money in this Connected Solutions program is real but accounting is not? Nobody knows how much electricity was sold to electric company in each event or aggregate and at what price. Tesla Energy support people are not aware of these event or why all of a sudden PowerWall keeps charge during a day, instead of feeding the house. They told me to reboot my PowerWalls and GW to “fix” the problem.

I cannot even figure out how electric companies measure how much power they get from virtual battery. Meters in Tesla GW are not revenue grade and they do not have access to them. My gateway consistently overstates level of produced solar power by 3-4% (I use RGM as a point of reference).

I noticed today that PowerWalls reduced amount of power sent to the grid when solar production had a spike. It means that someone configured a limit for PWs + solar feed into the grid but no way to know what this limit is and why it was configured. My supply service line is 200A, max current for solar is 80A, 3 PWs max current is 60A
.