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Quality at home charging, are charge ports really needed to be installed at home?

strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
4,239
2,175
NE Oklahoma
I don’t feel one bit sorry for OP. I feel sorry for his, correctly concerned wife.

Sniff sniff I smell something burning honey.
WTF are you talking about? What has the OP suggested that is a fire hazard? Thye are coming here for advice. Stop scaring people with your ignorance. There is absolutely nothing unsafe about using a Tesla Mobile connector plugged into a properly installed 14-50 (or 6-50). That is the ONLY thing I have ever charged my Teslas with at home and I have been doing it A LOT longer than you.
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,402
7,941
MA, NH
WTF are you talking about? What has the OP suggested that is a fire hazard? Thye are coming here for advice. Stop scaring people with your ignorance. There is absolutely nothing unsafe about using a Tesla Mobile connector plugged into a properly installed 14-50 (or 6-50). That is the ONLY thing I have ever charged my Teslas with at home and I have been doing it A LOT longer than you.
Most suggested Wall Connector, Wall Connector, Wall Connector. Then he goes out and buys the wrong outlet.

I’ve been installing 14-50 type outlets going back 40 years. I can’t tell you how many were replacements that had melted down or caught fire.

He wants to charge OUTDOORS.

I’m sure he won’t put a GFCI in either.
And he’ll probably use the *sugar* gen1 mobile connector. And I bet you don’t have GFCI either.

I was also replying to comments of adding a cord to a wall connector. Which is the worst of the worst ideas.
 
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STS-134

Active Member
Aug 8, 2021
1,782
3,099
SF Bay Area
Whatever dude. You can do whatever you want. If you want to overbuild and overpay, be my guest.

My whole point is that 9.6kW is plenty for anyone not running a taxi service and a 14-50 (or 6-50) is THE most universal way to access that power. That is a dead to full Model S/X in 10 hours. 3/Y in what, 8 hours?

I truly do not get this obsession with charging at ridiculous rates at home. You are literally just wasting money. More current creates more heat so the car has to spend more energy cooling itself so less goes into the battery. Idk if anyone did the test w/ the modern cars, but in the Roadster days, Tom Saxton determined that 240V/32A was the most efficient - above or below that a smaller percentage of power from the wall actually went into the battery. Was it a lot? Not really, but unless you are on the road, you have all night to charge. Why be in a hurry?
1. Keeping the car's computers awake (which is what happens during the entire charging session) takes about 200-400W. Faster charging = less overhead. I rarely ever hear the cooling system come on during charging, even on warm days, so the much bigger issue here is the overhead associated with running the computers, which happens even during the winter time.

2. I charge to 60% for daily use, and have almost zero battery degradation after 1 year. I've had one situation where someone called me and wanted to go somewhere that required another 10-15% SoC, and wanted to leave in an hour. So I bumped up the charge limit and began charging. I needed all 48A to get to 70-75% in 1 hour.

3. The only cost of doing this is the materials cost for the thicker wiring. But you also don't need to waste money on an outlet because you're supplying the hardwired EVSE.
 
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mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,402
7,941
MA, NH
1. Keeping the car's computers awake (which is what happens during the entire charging session) takes about 200-400W. Faster charging = less overhead

2. I charge to 60% for daily use, and have almost zero battery degradation after 1 year. I've had one situation where someone called me and wanted to go somewhere that required another 10-15% SoC, and wanted to leave in an hour. So I bumped up the charge limit and began charging. I needed all 48A to get to 70-75% in 1 hour.

3. The only cost of doing this is the materials cost for the thicker wiring. But you also don't need to waste money on an outlet because you're supplying the hardwired EVSE.
High amperage is more convenient.

I’d only do it if my panel had the capacity.

BTW, some electrical inspectors are stinkers if you over size the wire for the breaker. They want everything to be the “right size” because it can cause confusion.
 
You realize that the 6-50R is not the same as the 14-50 as has been discussed up to now, yes?

Your Tesla doesn't need the neutral wire, so either one will work (assuming you have the correct connector--since it sounds like you're determined to use a Mobile Connector, you'll need to be sure you have the right adapter, and the "corded" connector I suggested earlier won't work in a 6-50 outlet). However, you're certainly not getting the "universal" solution you said you desired, since there are plenty of applications out there for a 50A circuit which do require a neutral....
Well I did buy this little turd from Tesla for the mobile charger.
1649369424014.png

This will be dedicated for the charging of an EV, I wont be using the outlet for anything else. I have a 220v outlet that will be right next to it.
 
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Most suggested Wall Connector, Wall Connector, Wall Connector. Then he goes out and buys the wrong outlet.

I’ve been installing 14-50 type outlets going back 40 years. I can’t tell you how many were replacements that had melted down or caught fire.

He wants to charge OUTDOORS.

I’m sure he won’t put a GFCI in either.
And he’ll probably use the *sugar* gen1 mobile connector. And I bet you don’t have GFCI either.

I was also replying to comments of adding a cord to a wall connector. Which is the worst of the worst ideas.
You talking about one of these?
1649371960171.png
 
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Hello!

I wouldn't presume to offer advice on the intricacies of various outlets and modifications. I would, however, suggest that something along the lines of a hardwired ChargePoint Flex EVSE offers a variety of benefits worth considering. First, just throw on an adapter, and it works fine with every Tesla. Second, future proof, in case the family gets a different EV. We've had one for a couple years, weather isn't an issue. And, it's completely controllable via a remote app.

Simple.

Todd
 

ucmndd

Well-Known Member
Mar 10, 2016
10,103
19,833
California
He wants to charge OUTDOORS.

/clutches pearls as he thinks about the scores of electrocuted corpses he’s had to gingerly step over in RV parks across the country

JFC

Invented catastrophes
Completely fabricated reasoning about why Tesla changed the mobile connector to 32 amps
Arbitrary proclamation that 14-50 outlets are not safe at 40 amps

🙄
 

mswlogo

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,402
7,941
MA, NH
You talking about one of these? View attachment 791131
Yes.

But I recommend you get 40A and make sure you get the newer mobile connector that is safer because it will have the temperature monitor in the plug.

Make sure you buy with Amazon prime. Because so me GFCI’s Will false trip. Yet another problem avoided by hard wiring.

I would NEVER charge at 40A continuous and no temp monitor on the plug. It used to be that way from Tesla but no longer is.

Not great for outdoor use like you asked. And it won’t lock, but that might have been another thread.

Do you know for fact you can add 40A or 50A?

I’m done with this thread. To painful to watch.
 
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strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
4,239
2,175
NE Oklahoma
Most suggested Wall Connector, Wall Connector, Wall Connector. Then he goes out and buys the wrong outlet.

I’ve been installing 14-50 type outlets going back 40 years. I can’t tell you how many were replacements that had melted down or caught fire.

He wants to charge OUTDOORS.

I’m sure he won’t put a GFCI in either.
And he’ll probably use the *sugar* gen1 mobile connector. And I bet you don’t have GFCI either.

I was also replying to comments of adding a cord to a wall connector. Which is the worst of the worst ideas.
Dude. You need to take a step back. You just accused the OP of trying to burn down their house and violating code. Everything else in your post above is pure speculation. Please point me to 1 statement by the OP that they are endangering their family. I'll wait.

The OP came here asking for advice. You and others in this thread are trying to scare them. They are buying a 6-50 outlet and adapter for a mobile connector. Based on the adapter they showed, they are using a Gen 2 mobile connector and a GFCI breaker. Although I don't have a GFCI breaker on mine as they weren't code when I did my install. The Mobile Connectors have GFCIs in them so I am not concerned.

There is nothing wrong w/ the Wall Connector but it is not necessary. Mobile Connector is certainly safe as I have been using them for 12 years.

There is absolutely no issues w/ using the mobile connector outdoors. We regularly visit an amusement park that has RV spots and cabins. We rent a cabin for us and an RV spot for the car. We use the mobile connector on a 14-50. Works rain or shine.

You act like we are all cave-people and electricity is some scary invisible thing that will kill us. Guess what, we know how it works. We know how and why it flows, and how to protect ourselves while using it to transfer energy. We have agreed upon standards for breaker sizing and wiring that are determined to be safe.
 

strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
4,239
2,175
NE Oklahoma
But I recommend you get 40A and make sure you get the newer mobile connector that is safer because it will have the temperature monitor in the plug.
Why 40A? Breakers are to save the wiring from starting a fire, not the device at the end. As long as the wiring is rated, no issue w/ 50A breaker.
I would NEVER charge at 40A continuous and no temp monitor on the plug. It used to be that way from Tesla but no longer is.
With the Gen 2 mobile connector they will only be charging at 32A so you can sleep well now.
Not great for outdoor use like you asked. And it won’t lock, but that might have been another thread.
I'm still waiting for you to tell me what part of the mobile connector is not great for outdoor use. It's the EXACT same cord and plug as on the wall connector. So the parts that are going to get WET are the same between the 2 solutions.
I’m done with this thread. To painful to watch.
Good. Now we can give advice based on facts and not speculation bent on scaring people.
 

strider

Active Member
Oct 20, 2010
4,239
2,175
NE Oklahoma
1. Keeping the car's computers awake (which is what happens during the entire charging session) takes about 200-400W. Faster charging = less overhead. I rarely ever hear the cooling system come on during charging, even on warm days, so the much bigger issue here is the overhead associated with running the computers, which happens even during the winter time.

2. I charge to 60% for daily use, and have almost zero battery degradation after 1 year. I've had one situation where someone called me and wanted to go somewhere that required another 10-15% SoC, and wanted to leave in an hour. So I bumped up the charge limit and began charging. I needed all 48A to get to 70-75% in 1 hour.

3. The only cost of doing this is the materials cost for the thicker wiring. But you also don't need to waste money on an outlet because you're supplying the hardwired EVSE.
Like I said, I don't know of anyone that has done an actual experiment on true measured wall to battery at different charge rates for any of S3XY cars. We are both speculating.

Further, like I said, you are free to do whatever you want. If you want to charge at 48A, good on you.
 

David_Cary

Active Member
Dec 17, 2012
1,353
1,001
Cary, NC
I don't think all cars are the same when it comes to charging overhead, so that is another variable. I have 2015 70D which likes to run pumps a lot more than it used to. So charging overhead has changed over time. So it gets challenging to figure an answer.
I personally think the sweet spot is probably 32-40A but I am sure that it varies and maybe as high as 80A. But at some point, you are hurting the battery a bit and there is very little chance the tiny amount of saved electricity is worth even a tiny amount of stress on the battery. But, of course, all speculation even if somewhat educated.

I don't know of course, but I suspect most people using mobile chargers aren't unplugging regularly. I do and unplug 2-3 times a year. We have 2 cars so the roadtrips are split fairly evenly. So it is 4-6 road trips per year total.
This thread was fairly educational. It probably makes sense to be as robust as possible in many situations. But there is a real issue with moving or buying another car. I don't see myself getting another Tesla so I am not switching to a wall connector. I am also on my 4th location in 7 years of Tesla ownership.
Using a chargepoint with an adapter is alright.... much better now with "stay unlocked at home" functionality but pretty annoying before that. It was also really annoying when you wanted the J1772 with you to charge at work. Sure - you could buy an extra but for me it was temporary so I didn't bother.
Nowadays, I use my J1772 so rarely, I have no idea where it is. I suppose I could get a Chargepoint EVSE.
 

ATPMSD

Active Member
Mar 12, 2021
1,999
1,921
Atlanta, GA
Not how it works. Can you? Yes. Is it safe? Yes. Does it void the warranty? If Tesla finds out, yes they can.

In the US appliances either have a power cord or provide specifies for a direct connection. If you do not comply you are then using a product that has not passed a certification standard.

And then there is this. Code requires a CFIC beaker on the outlet while the wall connector specifically says not to use one. So do you violate code or yet another wall connector specification?

But of course, always up to the owner.
 
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Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
8,746
11,415
Boise, ID
But at some point, you are hurting the battery a bit and there is very little chance the tiny amount of saved electricity is worth even a tiny amount of stress on the battery.
Well, hold on. That's not a consideration at all for home charging. ALL forms of home charging are so very extremely slow from the battery's point of view, that it's never even getting CLOSE to "hurting the battery" level at all. So, sure, "at some point", but you can never get close to that point with at home AC charging.
 

beatle

Active Member
Aug 31, 2019
1,613
1,079
Springfield, VA
For anyone still reading this and considering their options for getting electric to their car, I'd recommend a wall connector mostly because it is now a lot more expensive to install a 14-50 since the 2017 code update that requires a super expensive GFCI breaker. In addition, now that the price of copper has gone to infinity and beyond, running two conductors instead of three saves a not-insignificant amount of money.

I have a Leviton 14-50R with 6awg Romex that melted on my gen 1 UMC. The UMC is wall mounted with strain relief and was unplugged only 2 or 3 times in the past 2 years. I use a gen 2 UMC when I travel to family members' houses. I didn't know about the chronic failure with this receptacle or I'd have gone a different route. The gen 1 UMC does not have a temperature sensor in the head to prevent this failure.
20220302_211915.jpg


That said, installing a 14-50 with the right wiring still isn't a bad idea (I just replaced my 14-50 with a better 14-50) and if you think you might use it for something else, it can be handy to have a spare receptacle. Maybe I'll start powder coating in my garage. :)

I plan to go "overboard" with a 100A circuit for my Lightning. It's true that even vehicles with large batteries can charge to full overnight on much less power, but with more utilities offering TOU rates, having the ability to fill up in a smaller window will have more appeal than seeing your battery gauge go up faster while you sleep.
 
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So what would you recommend for an EVSE?
You'll really want to get a GEN 2 UMC (mobile charger) from Tesla. Otherwise you have to use the J1772 adapter and you're mising out on being able to push the button on the charger handle to open the charge port. Also, you can get an adapter to use a 240v 20amp plug (we used to call these air conditioner plugs)... they look just like a normal 120v wall outlet but the pins face a different way. The nice thing about this is your electrician can use AWG 20 wire which is a lot cheaper. As long as you can charge over night, you'll be very happy with this "slower" charge speed. I think the Model s will charge at about 12mph on a NEMA 6-20 plug.... so 12mph * 8 hours is 96 miles a night.... and did I mention the wire is cheaper to such a plug?? :cool: Added perk... if you already have a 120v circuit that goes outside, you MAY be able to have your electrician rewire it to be 240v by switching a wire in your panelbox.

1649460600514.png
 
This seems like a good idea, but in reality it's not. One of the features of the mobile connector is that it uses temperature sensor to keep tabs on that 14-50 plug getting hot. The wall mounted HPWC using an extension cord like that won't do the same. If the plug comes loose or gets corroded in a few years, it could get quite hot and we know what can come of that. The 14-50 plug is the weak point in all of this.
 
This seems like a good idea, but in reality it's not. One of the features of the mobile connector is that it uses temperature sensor to keep tabs on that 14-50 plug getting hot. The wall mounted HPWC using an extension cord like that won't do the same. If the plug comes loose or gets corroded in a few years, it could get quite hot and we know what can come of that. The 14-50 plug is the weak point in all of this.
So what's with the 14-50 plug? From what I have been reading, everyone hates on the 14-50 plug. Then I buy a 6-50 plug and get told I bought the wrong plug. Im not an expert in electrical sockets so trying to keep up here is daunting.
 

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