WhiteStar
Member
WOW $55 million for fool cells?! Crazy. Stupid alright. Clueless. In the extreme.
That same fleet of 20 Tesla's & Supercharger would've cost less than $3 million. That's due DILLigence. Someone needs to do some splaining.
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Queensland Electric Highway
- Thread starter garyjac
- Start date
WOW $55 million for fool cells?! Crazy. Stupid alright. Clueless. In the extreme.
That same fleet of 20 Tesla's & Supercharger would've cost less than $3 million. That's due DILLigence. Someone needs to do some splaining.
raynewman
Active Member
strykeroz
Member
Up to now I had thought the actions of the ACT government made them look far more sensible. Sad. They have donors who own coal mines and burn coal to generate power too do they?
no, this seems to be driven by wind power providers trying to burn their energy as uselessly as possible, thereby creating additional demand for their energy, it kinda reminds me of the bad toons in Roger Rabbit
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ACT Government brings hydrogen energy storage to Canberra - Chief Minister, Treasury and Economic Development Directorate
$55 million for 1.25MW hydrogen electrolyser, ,a refuelling station and service centre and an initial fleet of 20 hydrogen fuelled Hyundais.
$125 million for research and development to focus on renewable energy power to gas (ReP2G), investigating efficiencies in the production of hydrogen from water using the ACT’s 100% renewable electricity supply.
brilliant this, its all embedded into the auction price of wind power for ACT.
$55 million is about 500 Tesla S-60 for Canberra, or about 1,200 Mitsubshi Outlander PHEVs for Canberra. or......
$125 million, is about 25,000 x $5k home PV batteries. That would be R&D with a result.
' investigating efficiencies in the production of hydrogen from water '
Elon Musk has a few choice worlds about the efficiency of H2 production from water for use in vehicles
10:08 onwards
.ACT Government brings hydrogen energy storage to Canberra - Chief Minister, Treasury and Economic Development Directorate
$55 million for 1.25MW hydrogen electrolyser, ,a refuelling station and service centre and an initial fleet of 20 hydrogen fuelled Hyundais.
$125 million for research and development to focus on renewable energy power to gas (ReP2G), investigating efficiencies in the production of hydrogen from water using the ACT’s 100% renewable electricity supply.
brilliant this, its all embedded into the auction price of wind power for ACT.
$55 million is about 500 Tesla S-60 for Canberra, or about 1,200 Mitsubshi Outlander PHEVs for Canberra. or......
$125 million, is about 25,000 x $5k home PV batteries. That would be R&D with a result.
' investigating efficiencies in the production of hydrogen from water '
Elon Musk has a few choice worlds about the efficiency of H2 production from water for use in vehicles
strykeroz
Member
A wind farmer can always feather the blades until the price goes up. Unlike some other technologies there's no need to generate when it's not profitable. In time we'll find the true motivation.
WhiteStar
Member
Except that it obviously is profitable. Why feather the blades when you can feather the nest via the favourable terms of a reverse auction & 'contract for difference'?
From the ACT Government's own website:
Renim's explanation is spot on but of course hydrogen as a commodity is the future of big oil profitability (or liability).
Further to Elon's comments, here's Marc Tarpenning on the same subject:
People will say that hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe, but it’s abundant out there in the universe, not here. We live on a planet where hydrogen is super reactive – it’s bound up into everything. It’s bound up into water, wood and everything else. The only way that you get hydrogen requires you to pour energy into it to break it from the chemical bonds.
Electrolysis is the most common method. You put electricity in water and it separates it, but you are pouring energy in, in order to make hydrogen, and then you have to compress it and that takes energy, and then you have to transport it to wherever you actually need it, which is really difficult because hydrogen is much harder to work with than gasoline or even natural gas – and natural gas is not that easy.
And then you ultimately have to place it into a car where you’ll have a very high-pressure vessel which offers its own safety issues – and that’s only to convert it back again to electricity to make the car go because hydrogen fuel cell cars are really electric cars. They just have an extraordinary bad battery.
Hydrogen is an energy carrier and not a primary fuel source on this planet. Maybe out somewhere in the universe, but not on a terrestrial planet.
When you add that all up, it turns out that the amount of energy per kilometre driven is just terrible. It’s way worse than almost anything else you can come up with – which I always suspected is one of the reasons why the energy companies have long been big proponents of it.
Electrolysis is the most common method. You put electricity in water and it separates it, but you are pouring energy in, in order to make hydrogen, and then you have to compress it and that takes energy, and then you have to transport it to wherever you actually need it, which is really difficult because hydrogen is much harder to work with than gasoline or even natural gas – and natural gas is not that easy.
And then you ultimately have to place it into a car where you’ll have a very high-pressure vessel which offers its own safety issues – and that’s only to convert it back again to electricity to make the car go because hydrogen fuel cell cars are really electric cars. They just have an extraordinary bad battery.
Hydrogen is an energy carrier and not a primary fuel source on this planet. Maybe out somewhere in the universe, but not on a terrestrial planet.
When you add that all up, it turns out that the amount of energy per kilometre driven is just terrible. It’s way worse than almost anything else you can come up with – which I always suspected is one of the reasons why the energy companies have long been big proponents of it.
Chuq
Active Member
LGGD
Active Member
A heap of info on the Queensland Electric Super Highway here:
Story Map Journal
Two locations already operational: Gatton and Cairns.
6 more locations (with addresses) confirmed: Townsville, Bowen, Mackay, Rockhampton, Childers and North Shore Hamilton in Brisbane right by the Gateway Bridge.
Many other locations are proposed: Port Douglas, Tully, Proserpine, Saint Lawrence, Marlborough, Calliope, Miriam Vale, Maryborough, Traveston, Caboolture, Helensvale and Coolangatta.
All locations except Hamilton have 1 x DC charger and 1 x AC charger it seems.
The Hamilton Brisbane location is proposed to have 4 x DC chargers (plus AC charging) and would be an ideal location for Tesla to co-locate with to provide proper long distance supercharging in Queensland (as opposed to the under construction Fortitude Valley location with 2 x 24/7 and 2 x office hours connectors which will be better suited to local charging).
So it looks like a CHAdeMO adapter will be indispensable in Queensland going forward especially as there are also already operational CHAdeMOs at St.Lucia in Brisbane, Fortitude Valley in Brisbane, Noosa and Byron Bay.
Story Map Journal
Two locations already operational: Gatton and Cairns.
6 more locations (with addresses) confirmed: Townsville, Bowen, Mackay, Rockhampton, Childers and North Shore Hamilton in Brisbane right by the Gateway Bridge.
Many other locations are proposed: Port Douglas, Tully, Proserpine, Saint Lawrence, Marlborough, Calliope, Miriam Vale, Maryborough, Traveston, Caboolture, Helensvale and Coolangatta.
All locations except Hamilton have 1 x DC charger and 1 x AC charger it seems.
The Hamilton Brisbane location is proposed to have 4 x DC chargers (plus AC charging) and would be an ideal location for Tesla to co-locate with to provide proper long distance supercharging in Queensland (as opposed to the under construction Fortitude Valley location with 2 x 24/7 and 2 x office hours connectors which will be better suited to local charging).
So it looks like a CHAdeMO adapter will be indispensable in Queensland going forward especially as there are also already operational CHAdeMOs at St.Lucia in Brisbane, Fortitude Valley in Brisbane, Noosa and Byron Bay.
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It would be nice if the ChadeMo charge adapter dropped a bit in price too ) I don't hink the "super highway" will remain free for very long either, as evidenced with the RAC in W.A. Anyhow, I can wait on Tesla to exapnd until I motor too far "oop North"
) I don't hink the "super highway" will remain free for very long either, as evidenced with the RAC in W.A. Anyhow, I can wait on Tesla to exapnd until I motor too far "oop North"
raynewman
Active Member
I think that you and I would have to leave our cars to our descendants to do an NQ trip on superchargers.It would be nice if the ChadeMo charge adapter dropped a bit in price too
Unfortunately, looks like the CHAdeMO is required (certainly beats J1772 tho).
Chuq
Active Member
It would be nice if the ChadeMo charge adapter dropped a bit in price too
In the meantime, TOCA members have access to the adaptor loan programme
Either way...I'm not THAT old Ray Nothing pressing to go North just yet, so I remain patient It's not so much the cost of the ChadeMo adaptor really, but the thought of being gouged like the RAC has done in W.A.
Nothing pressing to go North just yet, so I remain patient It's not so much the cost of the ChadeMo adaptor really, but the thought of being gouged like the RAC has done in W.A.
LGGD
Active Member
It would be nice if the ChadeMo charge adapter dropped a bit in price too
I picked mine up for $450 but I hear they are a bit more expensive these days.
Personally, I'd expect the Queensland Electric Super Highway to remain free for a lot longer than the RAC one was.
Whilst somewhere around Gympie is back on the Tesla rollout after being removed from it a couple of years ago I'd assume it'll be a long time till they go further north.
Anyone know why they're listing Gatton (UQ Vet Campus) on this "super highway" (apart from bragging purposes). Afaik this Gatton site is privately owned by UQ and pre-dates any "action" by the Qld Gov.
LGGD
Active Member
Mark E
Member
Chuq
Active Member
A bit more news about this today:
News articles:
* Free charging plan to boost Queensland electric car numbers
* Queensland to build one of the world's longest electric vehicle highways
* Queensland launches new electric super highway - motoring.com.au
The masochistic ones among you may want to correct People Who Are Wrong on the Facebook comments:
* ABC
* 7 News Brisbane
* 9 News Queensland
* Guardian Australia
* motoring.com.au
Interestingly the Cairns one is on Plugshare and has listed Chademo, CCS Type 2, and a Mennekes Type 2 socket.
News articles:
* Free charging plan to boost Queensland electric car numbers
* Queensland to build one of the world's longest electric vehicle highways
* Queensland launches new electric super highway - motoring.com.au
The masochistic ones among you may want to correct People Who Are Wrong on the Facebook comments:
* ABC
* 7 News Brisbane
* 9 News Queensland
* Guardian Australia
* motoring.com.au
Interestingly the Cairns one is on Plugshare and has listed Chademo, CCS Type 2, and a Mennekes Type 2 socket.
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Attica04
Member
I have already heard the screams from the ICE car drivers about $55m in tax payers money and this is outrageous etc etc. So show them this little bit of trivia about what tax payers are coughing up for Fossil Fuels.
Tax-based subsidies | Market Forces
Puts things in perspective.
Tax-based subsidies | Market Forces
Puts things in perspective.
Zoltrix77
Member
Anyone in Cairns who can check if it's actually CCS type 2? I'm hoping it is, might force the type 2 cause with manufacturers. At this stage, the only CCS vehicle in the country is the BMW i3, and its Type 1, perhaps there could be a NZ style retrofit!
WhiteStar
Member
I used the Tritium Veefil CHAdeMO station at the Noosa Blue Resort this morning, all without charge or the need to be staying at the resort. Interesting that it doesn't seem to have the same 30 minute time limit that the Byron Bay library one does. So operating in the 80% to 20% SOC range, a charge is likely to take something less than 90 minutes.
CHAdeMO & CCS is starting to make a whole lot of sense for southerners, especially as the QLD Electric Superhighway expands northwards.
CHAdeMO & CCS is starting to make a whole lot of sense for southerners, especially as the QLD Electric Superhighway expands northwards.
