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Question about 110 charging

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by themacs, Dec 1, 2014.

  1. themacs

    themacs Member

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    We just bout a 2014 85 with duel chargers. We are retired and don't drive the Telsa every day. We were going to have an electrician run a 50 amp 220 line close to the car. We do have a 110 receptacle within 10 feet already. We also have a super charing Tesla station within 6 miles.

    Sooooo the question is, Is it really worth it to bother with the 220? I know it is much faster, but again we don't drive it every day and we have 2 other vehicles (F type and RX 350).

    Now if the 220 is cheaper to use it might be worth it in the long run.

    Does anyone know if using the 110 is like turning on a 60 watt bulb constantly? Or?

    Thanks for any thoughts and help :)

    Scott
     
  2. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    120V charging is much less efficient, not to mention painfully slow. Over time, installing a 14-50 outlet will probably pay for itself.
     
  3. tga

    tga Active Member

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    The car will take nearly 4 days to charge from empty on a 120V outlet (vs 9-10 hrs using 50A @ 240V). You could go charge at the Supercharger, then go home and "top off" on 120, but do you really want to sit and wait 30 minutes for the car to charge all the time?

    One of the greatest things about an electric car is you plug in when you get home, and the car is fully charged the next morning when you are ready to leave. You can't really do that in a Tesla with only a 120V outlet; the charge rate is too slow and the battery is too big.

    Even if you are retired, not having 240 charging is likely to negatively impact your ownership experience, and make the whole experience less fun. A 14-50 outlet will cost you ~1% of the car price - why not do it right? You're missing the whole "don't have to go somewhere to buy gas" experience.

    240V charging will save money in the long run; it is more efficient then 120V.

    The car will pull 12amps at 120V, or 1440W. That's 24 60W bulbs, constantly.
     
  4. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely have the 220V/50A circuit installed. You won't regret it.
     
  5. Chipper

    Chipper Active Member

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    While true it will take nearly 4 days to go from empty to top full, if one only drives every few days and does not drive long distances it will not take nearly that long. Besides, with a SuperCharger and free (OK...Already paid for, if you will) electricity 6 miles away, why bother with a 220 line? Personally, I would not do it. I would rely on the 110 and the SC.
     
  6. Cottonwood

    Cottonwood Roadster#433, Model S#S37

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    A Supercharger may have free electricity, but your time is not free! The time it takes to drive to the Supercharger, charge, and then drive home can add up. On a trip where you don't have another choice, Superchargers are great, but everyday or even 20 times a year, those 40-60 minute errands can really add up to annoyance. With home charging, each charge costs about 20-30 seconds of your personal time, 10-15 seconds to plug in and another 10-15 seconds to unplug.

    The OP was very intelligent getting dual chargers! Given that, I would not only recommend 240 Volt charging, I would recommend an HPWC. At $750 now, they are a real bargain, are reliable, and will run cooler at 50 or 60 Amp charging. Also, you can then just leave the UMC can be left in the trunk.
     
  7. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    There are lots of folks around who happily live with 110V charging because their normal driving distances & time allowed.
    Don't forget the OP is a retired couple, so 20 minutes charge with a few seconds either side is probably totally acceptable.

    Having said that - I would suspect that after a few months of driving electric, the attraction of the other two ICE cars will be drastically diminished and there will a a fight for the EV.
     
  8. Dwdnjck

    Dwdnjck Member

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    Why not just ry the 110. You can always upgrade later if slow home charging is a problem. My home charging is a 16 mph and I have a full "tank" every morning.
     
  9. Sharkdiver76

    Sharkdiver76 Member

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    I have used a 110 for the past 5 months without an issue. If you were commuting more than 40 miles a day I would recommend having the 240 installed. I have a work car so I basically only drive mine on weekends, errands, and weekend trips. It does take a few days to charge if completely drained however with a sc that close you can wait for 20minutes for half a charge and topped off with 110
     
  10. themacs

    themacs Member

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    We have been doing that. We get about 200 charging mile in 40-45 minutes. We got to the bank, take a walk or just read. Not a bad way to go.

    I have not even used 110 much.

    Still, maybe the 240 would be a good idea.
     
  11. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

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    People used to be embarrassed to admit they charged mostly at a local supercharger. You may not want to tell other owners who are traveling and waiting to use that supercharger, or needing its paired space, than you live nearby but didn't bother to put a 240V outlet in your garage.
     
  12. linkster

    linkster Member

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    Agree completely. 120v is more costly (less efficient) but no need to commit now and possibly waste your money on an underutilized 240v circuit.


    Btw, enjoy your new car!
     
  13. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    The OP lives in California where demand for Superchargers is already high; you're right about the risk of ticking off others who may need a charge to get home (or wherever) but there's also a risk of the OP having to wait for a free spot. As adoption spreads, and numbers utilizing Superchargers increases, "local owners" regularly using Superchargers may well find it increasingly inconvenient.

    I definitely recommend getting the home 14-50 installed.
     
  14. Nigel16494

    Nigel16494 Member

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    Retired, SC within 6 miles. I don't think you need the 240V. The 110V is so inefficient, I wouldn't even use that either. I had no 240V for the first 1000 miles, the 110V giving me +3 miles per hour meant I had to charge for 14 hours every night just to stay even (based on my mileage). I now have 240V (used for Tesla and Volt) and it allows me to plug in and forget. I do still frequent the local superchargers which are rarely full when I go at 6am, you meet a nice set of people and can compare notes about various subjects. If you are retired then the chance to talk to other Tesla owners is a good experience.
     
  15. wiztecy

    wiztecy Active Member

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    #15 wiztecy, Dec 1, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
    One thing to keep in mind, the battery pack needs to "balance" after a charge. Typically its been seen, at least with the Roadsters and confirmed by Tesla, that since the 110v takes allot longer to charge that the balancing of the pack does not get enough time to properly do its job. With 220v you'll cut that time to charge quite a bit, so the time the Model S is sitting after the charge the battery is well spent balancing itself. I think people miss this fundamental part of the battery packs. Without the pack properly balanced, you won't get the optimum range or capacity of the pack/car. If it was me, and retired, I'd put in the 220v outlet and purchase a High Power Wall Charger.

    On the Roadster's 53kw pack I've seen it balance in as little as 30 minutes and as long as 5 to 8+ hours depending on how out of balance the cells were.
     
  16. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    The HPWC is a real nice-to-have and a necessity for some people who either drive a lot or are on a short TOU metre--and now at the lower price it's even nicer--but it's not a necessity for most. 110V is very inefficient and will cost you extra in electricity (especially if you are on a TOU metre). You won't be sorry you got the 220V.
     
  17. David_Cary

    David_Cary Member

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    There is a big variable here - what is the cost for the 240V? The other big variable - is the SC somewhere you like to hang out anyway or somewhere you go a lot. And lastly TOU rates.

    At 110, if you drive 20 - 30 miles a day and are typically home 20 hours a day, then you may not even notice the lack of 240. Even if you go 100 miles one day and then don't drive more than a few miles for several days and are home most of that time, you won't notice it. I think some of the posters here might be forgetting that.

    It might be worth figuring 20% loss in efficiency for 110. Then 8,000 miles a year or 2500 kwh. That 20% would be 500 kwh per year. In my world - $50 a year. In yours - $150? So if the 240 is a simple $500, it pays back in 3 years. Completely neglecting any TOU rate.
     
  18. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    If you're worried about electricity cost it's worth noting that you have 3 expensive cars sitting there depreciating daily, never mind the maintenance, insurance etc.
     
  19. islandbayy

    islandbayy Active Member

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    #19 islandbayy, Dec 2, 2014
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2014
    IMG_4010.JPG IMG_4009.JPG Another MUCH CHEAPER option that no one else has mentioned yet. Convert existing outlet to 240v. So you'd be charging at 12 amps at 240v. The UMC will work on 120 or 240v. It doesnt care. As long as you use the proper amp rated adapter, your all set.
    I personally made a adapter for when I travel, to convert 15 and 20 amp 240v outlets to work with the 120v 15 and 20 amp UMC adapters. This allows me to plug into hotel/motel air-conditioner and heater outlets. This came in very handy on a few occasions. It will double your charging speed without needing to really do much. Only problem would be is if the outlet is not a dedicated outlet and shares a circuit.
    Otherwise, if cost is still a factor, you can have a 20 amp 240v outlet run for a considerably lower amount of money then a 50 amp. A 20 amp 240v outlet would let you charge at 16 amps. I drain my pack almost daily, and I can full charge my almost dead pack back to 90% at 20 amps, your not far off especially if your not going far on a daily basis.
    While it's not "against the rules" to use a Supercharger for your regular charging, it is frowned upon. The accepted "intent" of superchargers is to allow distance trips with minimal down time for charging. Please reserve those stations for people who really need them. If you must use for regular charging, consider going during hours when demand is lowest.
    I will also guarantee that using a SC like that is going to get real old real fast. It will turn into a Chore. But by all means, I am not discouraging all use. Just daily type use. If you need it, use it. If it can be done at home, please do it at home.
     
  20. themacs

    themacs Member

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    Just so everyone knows, we respect the SC location. We have NEVER been there when it was full. There are ALWAYS empty spots. We go in Mid morning or Mid afternoon. or late at night. We use it, maybe once a week. We have had the car 30 days now and have gone 3 times, We will NOT hog the charger. It is next to where we shop and eat. I don't feel badly about it. We would unhook for anyone that needs it. We have had great conversation and learned a lot from the folks there. Almost every person was a LOCAL one. Many bought BECAUSE they lived near the SC.

    I won't apologize for owning nice cars. We all spend our money differently. Yep, the values go down but that is our choice. I have always though who wouldn't like to have a nice 4 door, convertible and suv.

    Am I angry at some of the replies here. ABSOLUTELY NOT. All are entitled to their opinion. I just wanted to let folks know we understand and respect the needs of others..

    Do all know which of the stations at the SC's charge the fastest? Our SC location has 7 plug ins. 1 A and B, 2 A and B, 3 A and B and 4 A. Tesla told me that the 4 A will charge much faster as it does not share power as the A / B's do. Now if you are at an A/B and only 1/2 is being used you get the faster charge. If someone pulls in and uses the other side then the charging slows down. But if your on the single (4 A) it will not slow down.

    Just thought I'd share.

    Happy Holidays to ALL
     

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