Question about 120 percent NEC rule with Tesla Gateway 2

[holeydonut]

I have some cool ones that look like brushed steel, also some shiny mottled silver stuff, or just plain ole red and white.

I have been wanting to prank one AHJ with the "grand illusion" plastic for signs, as its technically compliant. IPI Heavy Metal Grand Illusion/White 1/16

We can have fun with it whenever you're ready.

Haha I like the colorful language they added to the product description. It's like they have writers from the J Peterman Catalog working there:

"... elegant look and dazzling finishes of such exotic new colors as Steel Blue Brush ... "

I still want to see which stickers I end up with. Since I didn't pass the inspection with regard to the "line of sight" disconnects, we never got to looking at the warning labels. But having a grand illusion house diagram diagram and placards for my main service panel would be bad-ass. Too bad they don't have Cobalt Blue

 

[Vines]

They have a color changing one, that looks like tortoise shell even.

Any of those under the laser engraving tab are possible. There are some nice blues there. I have some dark blue and gold in stock.

 

[h2ofun]

Haha I like the colorful language they added to the product description. It's like they have writers from the J Peterman Catalog working there:

"... elegant look and dazzling finishes of such exotic new colors as Steel Blue Brush ... "

I still want to see which stickers I end up with. Since I didn't pass the inspection with regard to the "line of sight" disconnects, we never got to looking at the warning labels. But having a grand illusion house diagram diagram and placards for my main service panel would be bad-ass. Too bad they don't have Cobalt Blue

I failed first time since could not see second sub panel. Took my installer months to figure out what was needed. I actually tracked down the inspector, and he called the foreman and told him the code section they have to meet. Pretty bad when I had to do their job.
I now have a nice plaque on my main panel showing where everything is. Passed after that.

 

[holeydonut]

They have a color changing one, that looks like tortoise shell even.

Any of those under the laser engraving tab are possible. There are some nice blues there. I have some dark blue and gold in stock.

The placards don't have to be bright red background with white lettering/lines? There are some cool blues on that site ...

 

[wwhitney]

Edit: I guess 110.25 doesn't let you use "readily removable" lockout devices. And there are no Quad 30 A breakers with built-in permanent lock-outs.

I believe that Eaton BRQLW would qualify for use with a BR Quad breaker (BQ230230). The catalog says "Escutcheon Mounted: Device mounted semipermanently to the face of the circuit breaker and secured by the loadcenter deadfront"

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Vines]

The placards don't have to be bright red background with white lettering/lines? There are some cool blues on that site ...

Code requires them to be red/white mostly, some are white/yellow or orange. After installation its up to you what you do, though I do not recommend removing them, or painting over them as I see some people do.

OTOH if you just changed them out for blue/white, I think they would still communicate to the intent to the emergency responders. I wouldn't do black/grey but any high contrasting color is unlikely to cause actual confusion.

 

[holeydonut]

I believe that Eaton BRQLW would qualify for use with a BR Quad breaker (BQ230230). The catalog says "Escutcheon Mounted: Device mounted semipermanently to the face of the circuit breaker and secured by the loadcenter deadfront"

Cheers, Wayne

I can't find any image of these in the field on the internet anywhere. How the hell do you find this stuff? haha

Does that metal thing need to be mounted in conjunction with the BHLW part? I can't tell how this BRQLW thing even works... like does it need to be affixed to the breaker housing? "Escutcheon" makes me picture the plate that goes around a doorknob or something... does the BRQLW actually mount to the bezel on the panelboard instead of to the breaker body?

https://www.eaton.com/ecm/idcplg?Id...Rendition=Primary&&dDocName=EPODLOADCENTER008

 

[Vines]

Edit: oops

I had pulled up the wrong product and gave poor advice.

I have no idea how this thing would work. I will ask one of the master electricians if they have seen one.

I cant even find the installation manual.

 

[wwhitney]

I can't find any image of these in the field on the internet anywhere. How the hell do you find this stuff? haha

You check the manufacturer's catalog. : - ) See this page for some photos of the device mounted on a breaker:

BRQLW | Eaton BR handle lockoff | Eaton

BRQLW is the only part you need. Looks like it snaps onto the breaker with the cover off, and then the cover keeps it from being removed. The slots on the side accept a padlock, and the shaft of the padlock keeps the handle from being moved. The shaft only needs to obstruct two of the four mini-handles, I think, because of the handle ties.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[holeydonut]

I feel like if I showed this to the CoCo inspector he's going to get back in his car; drive back to the office; get all his inspector buddies to come back with him; then proceed to ring me up with thousands upon thousands of code violations...

It's too bad they don't have a picture of it with a padlock on it... because I feel like most LOTO padlocks aren't wide enough to block the inside pair of the Quad 30A breaker.

I still think there's zero difference between an electrician LOTO'ing the entire Gateway 2's cover closed or LOTO'ing each individual breaker on the internal panelboard.

 

[wwhitney]

Don't let them grind you down? : - )

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Vines]

You check the manufacturer's catalog. : - ) See this page for some photos of the device mounted on a breaker:

BRQLW | Eaton BR handle lockoff | Eaton

BRQLW is the only part you need. Looks like it snaps onto the breaker with the cover off, and then the cover keeps it from being removed. The slots on the side accept a padlock, and the shaft of the padlock keeps the handle from being moved. The shaft only needs to obstruct two of the four mini-handles, I think, because of the handle ties.

Cheers, Wayne

I found that page, but didn't see it with the padlock and deadfront. I think I understand what it does now, and it will probably need a specific sized lock to work properly.

 

[wwhitney]

I found that page, but didn't see it with the padlock and deadfront. I think I understand what it does now, and it will probably need a specific sized lock to work properly.

Not sure about that, this photo makes me think that most size padlocks would fit, but my sense of scale may be off. Obviously ordering a bunch and experimenting would be in order.

https://buy.wesco.com/medias/sys_master/300WX300H/300WX300H/9138846236702.jpg

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Vines]

Not sure about that, this photo makes me think that most size padlocks would fit, but my sense of scale may be off. Obviously ordering a bunch and experimenting would be in order.

https://buy.wesco.com/medias/sys_master/300WX300H/300WX300H/9138846236702.jpg

Cheers, Wayne

Does the each side of the shank of the lock provide the slot that prevents the breaker from being operated?

 

[wwhitney]

I'm not sure I follow the question. The part has two openings in it, one is for when the breaker is off and you want to keep it from being turned on; the other is for vice versa. The straight part of the lock shackle runs parallel to the handles and interferes with the movement of the handle.

(Edit: and of course, even if locked on, a breaker will still trip on overcurrent or short circuit; this property is called "trip free').

Cheers, Wayne

 

[holeydonut]

Lol so who's going to buy some of these bad boys and check them with various LOTO locks?

I think the shackle on el cheapo LOTO's won't be wide enough to prevent the middle portion of a Quad 30 A from being flipped on or off with this thing. The lock will rotate and settle with the curved part of the shackle going through the BRQLW.

Source: I have many years of looking at pictures on the Internet for training.

 

[wwhitney]

The manufacturer disagrees with you.

Part BRLW is described as "Padlockable device for locking the handle of . . . one independent outside pole of a Type BQ or BQC Quadplex circuit breakers (escutcheon mounted)" While BRQLW is described as "Padlockable device for locking the handle of the two center poles and the two outer poles of a two-pole Types BQ and BQC quadplex circuit breakers (escutcheon mounted)"

So they are certainly saying BRWLQ will lock both the inner and outer poles, in contrast to what they say about BRLW.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[holeydonut]

I really hope @Vines buys a handful of these and slaps them into some Quad 30A's...

 

[wwhitney]

If you want, you can easily buy them yourself and try it out. E.g.

BRQLW - Cutler Hammer - Circuit Breaker Parts and Accessories
BQ230230 - Eaton - Molded Case Circuit Breakers

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Vines]

Ordered a box of them, will give it a shot installing them inside a GW2 and see if we can convince the AHJ this is safe.