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Question about cQuartz Finest and swirls on my model S

Discussion in 'Model S' started by eyespii, Aug 31, 2015.

  1. eyespii

    eyespii Member

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    I had paint correction and cQuartz Finest applied the week of delivery of my Model S with the hope of preventing those dreaded swirls on my car's finish. It's now been less than a month - the car has been hand-washed maybe 3 times, waxed twice, and yet there are already visible white lines/marks all over the car, especially visible in direct sunlight. My detailer informed me that the "swirls" I'm seeing are not actually swirls in the paint, and are a normal part of the clear coat, and that they're impossible to get rid of. What is he talking about? Is there any truth to this? Are there really two types of "swirling"? One that is "normal clear coat", and another that's damage that can be removed?

    BTW, I wish I didn't care about this stuff.
     
  2. FLDarren

    FLDarren Member

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    The car shouldn't need to be waxed if cQuartz was applied. The whole point of cQuartz is water repellant and paint protection. Both of which wax does.
     
  3. eyespii

    eyespii Member

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    57d98640bc006b5bdb9893ceccc69307.jpg 367308fb003e4ae702fae54be6bbab56.jpg

    I see - is it possible that the marks I'm seeing are just in the top layer of wax / glaze that he applied? And that they'll go away once the wax wears off?

    I've attached a few photos of the marks I'm seeing - not sure how clearly they show up though.
     
  4. alin3

    alin3 Member

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    The new coatings (CQF, 22ple, Opti-Coat, etc) are all amazingly good in the amount of gloss and durability compared to traditional sealants and carnauba waxes. However, they are only a couple of microns in thickness at most and will not completely prevent swirls. And, they won't hide swirls left in the paint prior to application if the paint correction isn't perfect. I have CQF on my R8.

    Were those swirls there after paint correction? If not, the swirls are from washing and or the "waxing" process post-CQF. I've found that swirls are most commonly introduced, particularly in black cars, during the drying stage (with a less than clean towel). I'm completely anal with my R8, and therefore use a blower to dry the car post-wash and try to avoid any drying with a towel. If you need to dry with a towel, I'd recommend blotting the car with a large waffle weave microfiber towel rather than rubbing the towel against the paint.
     
  5. paintpolisher

    paintpolisher Banned

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    As stated above, why are you having your detailer wax over a coating? Your finish now takes on the characteristics of a wax when it comes to shedding water and dirt sticking to the surface vs a coating which has much better performance. While coatings have scratch resistance, they are not scratch proof. IMO the issues w swirls is due to your wash guy not using proper techniques.
     
  6. jpet

    jpet Jan P.

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    Did you see any of these marks when the car came back from the detailer? Normally when you have the car coated, waxing it should no longer be necessary. I have 2 layers of Modesta on my car and there's no way I could improve the result by applying anything else over it. Did the detailer see your car when he gave his opinion? I know my detailer would ask to come show the car and would immediately start doing his magic on it. The point of having a coating is to get rid of or prevent scratches and swirls. There's something wrong here. If you are lucky, it is just a result of the wax layer and should be easy to polish out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Or try the "drying with water" method my detailer taught me. That way one no longer has to touch the larger areas with a microfiber towel.
     
  7. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

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    There are marks? Where? lol
     
  8. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    Please elaborate.

    If you mean running the hose over the car with no nozzle, so the water sheets off, that sort of frowned upon here in California.
     
  9. jpet

    jpet Jan P.

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    That's what I mean. But it only works well with a coating that has strong water-repellent properties like the Modesta BC-05. You still have to wipe dry some areas of course or you can use an 8 hp Master Blaster blower. That blower scared the hell out of me at first. :scared:
     
  10. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    A couple things.

    Coatings do not need to be waxed or sealed. The notion that this provides extra protection, while logical, is insanely insignificant when talking about something on a submicron level. Secondly, no layer of protection, other than paint protection film (and perhaps Carpro's new self-healing coating), protects against improper washing, especially when doing rinseless or waterless washes. Avoiding swirls is just really hard when it comes to a daily driver.

    You have some very mild swirling there, and frankly it could have been there after the correction. The sun is the great equalizer and reveals all. You probably can't even see those things in regular lighting.

    As jpet mentioned, use a Metro Master Blaster to dry your car. Works great when you have a coating.
     
  11. eyespii

    eyespii Member

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    Thanks for the replies. The guy that I had apply the CQF was actually a different guy than the one I went to for the car wash/wax. The second detailer admitted that he was not a fan of CQF or any coating products, and instead preferred to wax regularly. The first time I brought the car to him, he put a wax/glaze on, and the car was completely swirl free at this point. However, I had to bring the car in to Tesla for service the next day, and it was upon picking up the car from Tesla a couple days later that I noticed all the swirls. I did make sure to inform Tesla beforehand not to wash the car, and the car was actually pretty filthy when I picked it up, so I'm not 100% sure if they put it through an automatic wash or not. But that was the only time the car was out of my possession, and who knows what they did.

    The swirls disappear in regular lighting, but I live in SoCal, where it's sunny outside almost every day. Doesn't mix well with my black car.
     
  12. blaz

    blaz Member

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    I have a black P85D with CQuartz Finest and the swirls are back after a few washes. I have decided to just live with it and not worry constantly about having a perfect looking car anymore. I found it to not be worth the stress. Definitely understand be frustration though.
     
  13. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    sounds like an amateur detailer who screwed up and didn't do a good paint correction first and now he probably sealed in those swirls under the cquartz. that suuucks.
     
  14. jpet

    jpet Jan P.

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    That's indeed one of the possibilities. Another option is improper washing technique.
    I would go back to the initial detailer so he can have a look at it. He should be able to do something about it.
     
  15. eyespii

    eyespii Member

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    One other unfortunate possibility I just thought of is that the second detailer somehow removed/buffed off the cQuartz Finest coating, and the swirls are actually in the clear coat. That would suckkkk...
     
  16. yobigd20

    yobigd20 Well-Known Member

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    this line alone proves that the detailer you went to is a really bad amateur, not a professional. do not go back to him again. he obviously didnt paint correct right. or if he did, then he didn't apply the cquartz thoroughly enough to protect the car (he may have missed spots) thus causing you to get swirls when you did the subsequent washes. but for him to say something like "swirls are part of the clear coat and are impossible to get out" is total BS and he's trying to weasel his way out of something that's too difficult for him to do correctly.

    find someone else. i doubt you can get your money back from the first guy.
     
  17. eyespii

    eyespii Member

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    I really complicated the picture by going to two different detailers - the first detailer is the one that initially did the paint correction + CQF, and then the second detailer is the one that did maintenance washing/routine stuff. The 2nd detailer is the one that said he isn't a fan of nano-coats, and is the one that put a layer of glaze/wax on the car. He's also the one that told me the marks were a normal part of the clear coat.

    I'm thinking I'll go back to the original detailer that put on the CQF, and just avoid the 2nd guy completely from now on. It did strike me odd that he would say those micro-scratches are a part of the normal clear coat...
     
  18. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    No detailer can get out 100% of the swirls and scratches. That would be an impossible venture with a lot of risk to the clearcoat. You just have to balance the amount of correction with the safety of doing the correction. For all you know, those remaining swirls could have been much more significant to begin with and they are now substantially better.

    Although certainly some detailers are much better and conscientious than others, I don't think you can assume that either one is a hack since you really don't have any real documentation of what the car was like before.

    Now, for detailers there is significant disagreement about the value and utility of coatings. Some detailers feel that they are the way to go and others like waxes and sealants. The appropriate LSP for a car is the one that best suits the driver's needs and the experience of the detailer. If you've got a garage queen and hardly ever sees the light of day, waxes are fine. If your car is a DD and is outside a lot, a coating is the way to go. Nevertheless, even coatings can be done improperly and the life of a coating has much to do with how it is handled after the application.

    But, I'll say it again. Your swirls are barely noticeable. Chalk it up to a learning experience and next year (or two years from now) if you think your car needs a refresher, stick with one detailer who is rated / certified and make sure you see what is indeed more closely.
     
  19. eyespii

    eyespii Member

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    Update:

    I brought the car back to the original retailer that applied the cQuartz to the car. After a quick inspection, he told me that it looked like the cQuartz had been stripped off the car completely. Apparently the other detailed had polished the car, despite knowing ahead of time that I had cQuartz on it.

    Super frustrating. So - basically I invested a ton of time, money, and effort into attempting to protect my car's coating, only to have the coating stripped off in less than a week, and all the swirls and holograms I'm seeing are damage to the clear coat.

    I'm gonna go to the second detailed that polished the car to see if he's an upstanding enough guy to get paint correction and pay for the cQuartz to get reapplied. My guess is no - but we will see.

    :-(
     
  20. kevincwelch

    kevincwelch Active Member

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    That sucks.

    But something doesn't make complete sense. How did detailer #1 determine that there was no CQ present on the car? Are you sure that detailer #2 polished the car? "Polish" can mean different things to different people. Some may use it in lay terms to mean "shining up the car" with a wax. Did detailer #2 actually use an abrasive substance to - in the true sense - polish the car? Was an AIO wax used? That would be an abrasive polish with a wax. Simply hand (or machine) waxing shouldn't remove the CQ and clearly washing it a few times isn't going to do that either. I ask because completely stripping by polishing the car could take a while to do.

    You didn't mention holograms in the OP. Those are present now too?
     

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