Question about supercharing

[loanchau2k]

Hello my fellow Tesla owners, since I get 1year free supercharging, I intend to use it all the time. I know in the early days, supercharging could be bad for the battery.
But now with advanced Tesla BMS, I would imagine BMS will throttle the electric current if it detects the battery is hot.
Or it doesn't. Do we need to worry about frequent supercharging nowadays?

Thx guys,

 

[theothertom]

I wouldn't worry about it. I bought the car for road trips and I'm going to use it and enjoy it. BTW, all EVs throttle back current as the battery "fills up", so there is some protection built in.

 

[kashian]

I also plan to use superchargers as much as I can but will try not to overdue it and still charge from home sometimes.

 

[silverstoned83]

Hello my fellow Tesla owners, since I get 1year free supercharging, I intend to use it all the time. I know in the early days, supercharging could be bad for the battery.
But now with advanced Tesla BMS, I would imagine BMS will throttle the electric current if it detects the battery is hot.
Or it doesn't. Do we need to worry about frequent supercharging nowadays?

Thx guys,

Personally, I would only take advantage of free supercharging when necessary. Don’t go out of your way to get a free supercharge. If you can charge at home, do that instead.

Charging at such high rates is stressful on any battery, no matter how advanced the BMS and thermal management system is. This is why the BMS separates the two levels of charging as it counts the amount of power that’s transferred through each, because ‘DC charging’ is much harder on the pack when compared to ‘AC charging.’ The more DC fast charging, aka supercharging, the more wear you’re putting on the pack. The more wear equates to more degradation in capacity, higher internal resistance, and reduced max supercharge rate.

Having said that, I would never hesitate to use a supercharger if I was traveling far enough that the charge from home was insufficient for the trip.

 

[animorph]

If you plan to go on many long road trips you might want to ease up on unnecessary Supercharging and save it for the long trips. I haven't seen anyone reporting a 100/3/Y battery that has been throttled by Tesla yet, but once it happens it's likely to be permanent. Then you're stuck at a slower charge rate. We have over 10,000 kWh of Supercharging on our X100D with no noticeable slowdown.

No need to worry about battery temperature or charge rate. That's all controlled by the car. We've Supercharged plenty of times at 114F temperatures. The A/C will run maxed out to cool the battery if necessary, and the car can reduce the charge rate as needed. You will notice that the charge rate significantly slows as the charge level of the battery increases. That's the charging "taper", probably the most noticeable battery-preserving strategy.

 

[house9]

The lower your State of Charge (SOC) when you arrive at a SuperCharger the faster it can take on charge.

If you are going to a supercharger input it into the navigation (even if you know how to get there) the car will start the pre-conditioning the battery for supercharging (either heating it up or cooling it down as needed)

I would imagine charging at slower rates is better for the battery long term but am not experienced enough to speak directly to this point, I know electricity is expensive in California so a free year of SuperCharging could save you some money. Charging at home is very convenient though.

 

[jcanoe]

If you care about maximizing the useful life of your Tesla Model Y's battery pack then only use a SuperCharger when you need to including when are traveling away from home. If anything the latest V3 SuperCharger can stress the battery more due to the maximum rate of charge being 250kW. I would not avoid using a SuperCharger but I would make it a point to do most of the charging at home or at work.

 

[EnrgyNDpndnce]

We have over 10,000 kWh of Supercharging on our X100D with no noticeable slowdown.

Is there an easy way to tell how many kWh of Supercharging you have done? Or have you simply been keeping a running total?

 

[cwerdna]

Personally, I would only take advantage of free supercharging when necessary. Don’t go out of your way to get a free supercharge. If you can charge at home, do that instead.

OP probably has Pacific Gouge & Extort as their electric provider which == much more expensive electricity than you. (I've lived in Seattle before and had Seattle City & Light. I also lived elsewhere in King County so I had Puget Sound Energy. They're way cheaper than PG&E.)

Marginal cost for me to charge at home is now 32.4 cents/kWh (includes 1 cent/kWh extra to my city for supposedly 100% renewable energy). If I wanted to be killed with 34.2 to 48.6 cents/kWh during peak and partial-peak hours, I could charge at home off-peak for 17.3 cents/kWh. See How to Charge your Tesla for FREE (The good part of ownership!!) and Cost of EV charging in Vancouver for more details.

Pre-COVID, almost all my charging was on free L2 at work. Now I mostly charge via Home Page - DRIVEtheARC (limited parts of Nor Cal only) and sometimes w/a big discount or I charge elsewhere where it's less than 32.4 cents/kWh. CHAdeMO Charging the Model 3 is only 19 cents/kWh. I've sometimes charged my Bolt there on CCS. RayK uses a CHAdeMO adapter w/his Tesla.

 

[loanchau2k]

Thx a lot guys. I live very close to supercharging stations and I got 1year free supercharging, so it makes sense for me just supercharge the car since it takes only 30mins to fill up. But if the supercharge put a toll on the battery, I will then charge from home

 

[Mike_TV]

Is there an easy way to tell how many kWh of Supercharging you have done? Or have you simply been keeping a running total?

Every paid visit to a Supercharger is here...

Tesla SSO - Sign In

but you would have to create a spreadsheet yourself if you want to see a running total.

 

[jcanoe]

Thx a lot guys. I live very close to supercharging stations and I got 1year free supercharging, so it makes sense for me just supercharge the car since it takes only 30mins to fill up. But if the supercharge put a toll on the battery, I will then charge from home

If you want to explore using a SuperCharger with your new Tesla there is a way to do so that will be less stressful to the battery. Although Tesla controls the charging voltage and amperage throughout the charging session the maximum charging rate is something that you can indirectly limit. The latest V3 SuperCharger stations can charge at up to 250kW; most of the existing SuperCharging infrastructure (V2) is limited to 120kW or 150kW. There is another type of SuperCharger, the Urban SuperCharger. These require a smaller footprint for the charging equipment and can charge at up to 72kW. Urban SuperChargers are typically located inside parking garages so their may be an hourly parking rate independent from any SuperCharger charging fees (not applicable since you have the 1 year free SuperCharging.)

When discharging or charging a lithium ion battery it is best to limit the maximum rate to no more than 1 X C where C represents the capacity of the battery pack in kWh (~78 kWh total capacity in the current Long Range Model Y.) The battery's performance will not degrade as much, over time, as when subjected to discharging or charging at a higher rate. By comparison the latest generation V3 SuperCharger, at the maximum charging rate of 250kW, is capable of charging the Tesla Model Y's battery at more than 3 X C. Even when conditions are met Tesla will only charge at the V3 SuperCharger's maximum rate for perhaps 5 or 6 minutes before starting to taper off the charging rate. The Urban SuperCharger, being limited to a maximum charging rate of 72kW, is within the 1C charging rate for minimizing long term detrimental effects to the battery.

 

[Puma2020]

One of the big advantages of EVs is the charging at home while the car is idle. Every trip can basically start with a "full" tank. Since the recommendations is charging up to 80 or 85%, "full" is not 100% unless you are going on a long trip and need that initial range. Having to drive to a SC for the first year, to me seems like having to go to one of those old fashion... what did they call it... gas stations.
However, with the range that these beauties have, even in the cold north east, I only find myself plugging in once every few days, depending on what range is left and what I might need in the next few days. Of course, this pandemic does limit my desire/need to go out every day. Hopefully in a few months, this may change.
Of course, free energy is free energy and you should take advantage of it. Just don't charge to 100% if it is not needed.

 

[Pianewman]

I don't believe anyone above mentioned another potential down side to "always supercharging." when you can charge at home.

There will frequently be travelers (road trippers) in need of a charge. That number will be increasing, with EV sales increasing, and especially during holiday periods, and a full supercharger station could be troublesome.

...just a thought...

 

[dhrivnak]

To me the biggest benefit of an EV is to wake up to a full battery each morning. Charging is not expensive as I get about 1000 miles for $25 of electricity. My time is worth more than any savings by hunting “free” SuperChargers. Yes I use them when I travel and need them. But I estimate 70% of my chargers is done easily at home.

 

[Big Earl]

Hello my fellow Tesla owners, since I get 1year free supercharging, I intend to use it all the time. I know in the early days, supercharging could be bad for the battery.
But now with advanced Tesla BMS, I would imagine BMS will throttle the electric current if it detects the battery is hot.
Or it doesn't. Do we need to worry about frequent supercharging nowadays?

Thx guys,

Know that there is a counter that monitors the number of kWh of electricity added by DC fast charging (Supercharging, CHAdeMO or CCS). As this counter passes a certain threshold, your supercharging speed will decline. It was once thought that this behavior only affected some S & X vehicles but I can confirm that it is happening to my Model 3 after 15,000+ kWh of DC fast charging. I don’t have Scan My Tesla, so I can’t say for sure how many kWh have been added via DC fast charging but my total energy added is over 28 MWh in almost 100,000 miles and at least half of that was done on Superchargers.

So yes, you get free power, but using that free power will eventually result in slower charging. Maybe that doesn’t matter to you... just figured it was worth mentioning.

From another thread on the subject:

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
The above is from about 1:00 into the video at 90 and 75 battery packs getting nerfed early???.

The two different Supercharger sites closest to home for me are all 72 kW urban style.

When looking on Tesla's Supercharger map, I see Newark, CA Supercharger | Tesla that's 72 kW urban style. The other ones near there are higher power.

Hopefully, someone has some details on whether the Y w/the pack the OP has will get "nerfed" and what are the triggers for it.

 

[Big Earl]

^^^
The above is from about 1:00 into the video at 90 and 75 battery packs getting nerfed early???.

The two different Supercharger sites closest to home for me are all 72 kW urban style.

When looking on Tesla's Supercharger map, I see Newark, CA Supercharger | Tesla that's 72 kW urban style. The other ones near there are higher power.

Hopefully, someone has some details on whether the Y w/the pack the OP has will get "nerfed" and what are the triggers for it.

There is a forum post around here somewhere that predates that video. I can’t find it, but that’s where my screenshot came from.

100 packs have seen charging speed reductions, as well. Many 100 owners found themselves limited to 108 kW after having their cars for a while. A recent software update lifted that cap but only at low states of charge. We need more time to see the full effects of the new software on these cars.

Thinking about my own situation some more, I’d increase my estimate to say 2/3 of our charging is DC fast charging. This leads me to believe that the Model 3 doesn’t start throttling charging speed until much later in the car’s lift, compared to the 75D example above. I’ve noticed our speeds slowly reducing for the past 20,000 - 40,000 miles. I haven’t been documenting it closely and I’m not sure if there have been any fleet-wide changes to the charging curve during that time.

I have some data from a recent road trip that I’ll share in one of @Zoomit’s charging speed threads. Also, to be clear, I’m not complaining (yet), as the car still charges plenty fast for road trips; it still charges faster than the ID.3 Björn is testing. Hopefully that continues to be the case.

Finally, speculating on the Y: I expect it to behave similarly to or better than my 2018 Model 3. I expect people to get full speed charging until they’ve added 15,000 - 25,000 kWh DC, at which point speeds will be reduced, but still very usable.

 

[loanchau2k]

@jcanoe , thx a lot for the info. The supercharging station near where I live is urban supercharge station, it's 50kwh. So, I am good to use it frequently then. Again, very helpful information. Yah, I can charge from home, but why pay money to PG&E where I can get it free from Tesla

 

[cwerdna]

The supercharging station near where I live is urban supercharge station, it's 50kwh.

Huh? Charging rate is measured in kW, not "kwh".

If you were able to charge at 50 kW * 1 hour --> 50 kWh came out of the station. Multiply the units and values. 50 kW * 2 hours -- > 100 kWh.

Willing to post the Supercharger location?

What Big Earl is trying to convey is that fast charging (e.g. via a Supercharger) may in the future cause fast charging to be slower. You may care about this on a road trip.

Charging rate is measured in kW. It is unclear if the throttling/nerfing will happen w/the Y, what triggers that happening and what speeds/types of charging above level 2 speeds (max is ~11.5 kW on a US-market Y per Onboard Charger) could trigger it/counts. Is it possible the car doesn't care and increments a counter for all charging that's above level 2, regardless of the actual rate?