Question about using 14-50 Receptacle/Outlet to a 30AMP Breaker

[cvincent]

Hello Everyone,
I'm in a situation where I might have to use my Grizzle-E Duo (that's 14-50) to a 14-30 30AMP Outlet. My plan was to replace/switch the receptacle 14-30 outlet (30AMP), with the 14-50 receptacle. My plan also was to manually adjust the DIP switches on the Grizzle-E duo to pull only 24AMPS (instead of the current 40A).

I understand the Gauge wiring is different between 14-50 and 14-30, but since i'm manually adjusting the physical AMP switches on the Grizzle-E charger, would this plan be feasible, or generally a bad idea?

 

[jcanoe]

Generally a bad idea, also not to code. The receptacle, i.e. 14-50 must match the installed circuit. *

* Exception, when using a 14-50 receptacle either a 40A or 50A circuit and circuit breaker is allowed provided the receptacle is labeled accordingly. (The reason is that there is no specific receptacle made for use with a 40A circuit.)

If the Grizzl-E Duo includes installation instructions for a hard wired installation (no plug) then that would be the correct choice. Just be sure to set the switches inside the Duo for use on a 30 amp circuit.

 

[cvincent]

Generally a bad idea, also not to code. The receptacle, i.e. 14-50 must match the installed circuit. *

* Exception, when using a 14-50 receptacle either a 40A or 50A circuit and circuit breaker is allowed provided the receptacle is labeled accordingly. (The reason is that there is no specific receptacle made for use with a 40A circuit.)

If the Grizzl-E Duo includes installation instructions for a hard wired installation (no plug) then that would be the correct choice. Just be sure to set the switches inside the Duo for use on a 30 amp circuit.

I haven't thought of hard-wiring it! I think I might be able to do that.

I know my original plan/question will work, but I would like to go about this the proper way. Thanks for the input!!

 

[SageBrush]

Another choice is a 14-30 -> 14-50 adapter, into which you plug the EVSE.
Setting the dip switches is an important step. I suggest confirming the charging speed in the car.

 

[cvincent]

Generally a bad idea, also not to code. The receptacle, i.e. 14-50 must match the installed circuit. *

* Exception, when using a 14-50 receptacle either a 40A or 50A circuit and circuit breaker is allowed provided the receptacle is labeled accordingly. (The reason is that there is no specific receptacle made for use with a 40A circuit.)

If the Grizzl-E Duo includes installation instructions for a hard wired installation (no plug) then that would be the correct choice. Just be sure to set the switches inside the Duo for use on a 30 amp circuit.

How about an adapter like this?

https://images.industrialsupplies.com/images/1500x1500/32243445.jpg

 

[cvincent]

Another choice is a 14-30 -> 14-50 adapter, into which you plug the EVSE.
Setting the dip switches is an important step. I suggest confirming the charging speed in the car.

So something like this?

https://images.industrialsupplies.com/images/1500x1500/32243445.jpg

You think something like this will be fine? It will technically be 'up to code' right?

 

[jcanoe]

Would it work? Probably. Would this be advisable for regular every day use? It is like adding a (very short) extension cord, adds one more interconnect that can overheat, might eventually fail.

What does the Grizzl-E Duo EVSE installation manual state about hard wiring? Alternately you could replace the 14-50 power plug on the Grizzl-E Duo EVSE with a 14-30P and set the Grizzl-E Duo for use on a 30A circuit.

 

[240vPlug]

Generally a bad idea, also not to code. The receptacle, i.e. 14-50 must match the installed circuit. *

* Exception, when using a 14-50 receptacle either a 40A or 50A circuit and circuit breaker is allowed provided the receptacle is labeled accordingly. (The reason is that there is no specific receptacle made for use with a 40A circuit.)

If the Grizzl-E Duo includes installation instructions for a hard wired installation (no plug) then that would be the correct choice. Just be sure to set the switches inside the Duo for use on a 30 amp circuit.

This^. It's sound advice. Something done that's not to code opens you up to potentially serious problems/consequences One could be denial of a home owners insurance claim.

 

[cvincent]

Would it work? Probably. Would this be advisable for regular every day use? It is like adding a (very short) extension cord, adds one more interconnect that can overheat, might eventually fail.

What does the Grizzl-E Duo EVSE installation manual state about hard wiring? Alternately you could replace the 14-50 power plug on the Grizzl-E Duo EVSE with a 14-30P and set the Grizzl-E Duo for use on a 30A circuit.

I read up on replacing the power plug on Grizzl-e duo (also hard wiring it), and its generally a bit difficult, and not recommended apparently (according to the people in Reddit). If I was able to replace the power plug, that would've been perfect.

 

[jcanoe]

I read up on replacing the power plug on Grizzl-e duo (also hard wiring it), and its generally a bit difficult, and not recommended apparently (according to the people in Reddit). If I was able to replace the power plug, that would've been perfect.

How difficult would it be to replace the existing 30A circuit with one rated for 40A? Then you could use the 14-50R (labeled for 40A) and the Grizzl-E Duo with the 14-50 plug provided you set the Grizzl-E for use on a 40A circuit.

 

[SageBrush]

Alternately you could replace the 14-50 power plug on the Grizzl-E Duo EVSE with a 14-30P and set the Grizzl-E Duo for use on a 30A circuit.

Nice idea, just be sure it is water tight on both ends

 

[Rocky_H]

Generally a bad idea, also not to code. The receptacle, i.e. 14-50 must match the installed circuit. *

* Exception, when using a 14-50 receptacle either a 40A or 50A circuit and circuit breaker is allowed provided the receptacle is labeled accordingly. (The reason is that there is no specific receptacle made for use with a 40A circuit.)

While that is the good recommendation of how things should be done, it's not actually code required to do that. There is a chart for branch circuits that have multiple outlets on them, and in that case it does have a specification of what outlet ratings must be used to match the circuit rating. And that applies as you are saying. If it's 30A, with multiple outlets, they must also be 30A.

But for a dedicated circuit with only one outlet, you can have the breaker be less than the rating of the outlet type, but it can't be higher.

 

[jcanoe]

While that is the good recommendation of how things should be done, it's not actually code required to do that. There is a chart for branch circuits that have multiple outlets on them, and in that case it does have a specification of what outlet ratings must be used to match the circuit rating. And that applies as you are saying. If it's 30A, with multiple outlets, they must also be 30A.

But for a dedicated circuit with only one outlet, you can have the breaker be less than the rating of the outlet type, but it can't be higher.

I can understand how for a dedicated circuit the breaker amperage value can be less than the rating of the receptacle but does this allow for the wire (originally spec'd for a 30 amp circuit) to be undersized as relates to using a 14-50 receptacle. The breaker would be labeled 30A (the 14-50 receptacle too should be manually labeled 240V/30A.) It would not be obvious to someone later on attempting to use the 14-50 receptacle that the wiring is not correctly sized for a 14-50 receptacle.

 

[Rocky_H]

I can understand how for a dedicated circuit the breaker amperage value can be less than the rating of the receptacle but does this allow for the wire (originally spec'd for a 30 amp circuit) to be undersized as relates to using a 14-50 receptacle. The breaker would be labeled 30A (the 14-50 receptacle too should be manually labeled 240V/30A.) It would not be obvious to someone later on attempting to use the 14-50 receptacle that the wiring is not correctly sized for a 14-50 receptacle.

It's not undersized though. It corresponds to the rating of the circuit. And if the breaker is 20A, then that is the circuit rating and it needs 20A capable wire. The outlet type isn't what sets the circuit rating.

And yes, that could create an annoyance in the future with someone plugging in something into the 14-50, and it nuisance trips the 20A breaker. That's why it's written with the greater than or less than in this direction, so it will cut off if something isn't matched instead of letting it overdraw current on the wire because of the breaker being too big. But I guess this goes to the purpose and reasoning of why it's a dedicated line. Someone knows what they are installing it for and what device is supposed to be plugged into it.

I know this is all nitpicking about code. The sensible thing is just to match everything to the same level. That's what makes the most sense and won't have any unexpected questions for anyone in the future.

 

[SageBrush]

I know this is all nitpicking about code. The sensible thing is just to match everything to the same level. That's what makes the most sense and won't have any unexpected questions for anyone in the future.

Yup. My 2¢ would include worry about a defective breaker (from repeat trippings) that then leaves the conductor unprotected.

 

[240vPlug]

This is one of the reasons why I always recommend hard wire an EVSE for a permanent home charging solution. It avoids a lot of issues I have seen over the years. It isn't worth saving a few dollars to open yourself up to risk.

 

[cvincent]

It's not undersized though. It corresponds to the rating of the circuit. And if the breaker is 20A, then that is the circuit rating and it needs 20A capable wire. The outlet type isn't what sets the circuit rating.

And yes, that could create an annoyance in the future with someone plugging in something into the 14-50, and it nuisance trips the 20A breaker. That's why it's written with the greater than or less than in this direction, so it will cut off if something isn't matched instead of letting it overdraw current on the wire because of the breaker being too big. But I guess this goes to the purpose and reasoning of why it's a dedicated line. Someone knows what they are installing it for and what device is supposed to be plugged into it.

I know this is all nitpicking about code. The sensible thing is just to match everything to the same level. That's what makes the most sense and won't have any unexpected questions for anyone in the future.

Thanks for the explanation! I figured it was going to be fine, especially if I manually change the amperage pull directly from the charger itself (charger itself has physical DIP switches to designate wattage pull). But I wanted to make sure that my reasoning was valid.

Either way, I'll be staying with my current 50A 14-50R charger. It was more of a hypothetical question, just in case I have to use the 14-30 receptacle (currently that is my backup charger just in case the 14-50R fails).

Thanks again!