TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Question; Car to Grid power?

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Raindog1, May 14, 2016.

  1. Raindog1

    Raindog1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    I'm curious as to if it's possible to charge your car late at night/early morning hours and then use the power at peak times (post 9to5 work hours)? This would allow people to "store" low cost grid usage and use during higher utility times? Any info? Is this a bad/good idea? Thanks
     
    • Dislike x 1
  2. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,232
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    This has been asked quite a bit... first car to grid is not legal in many places (at least in the US it is). Car to home (not to grid) can work with the right equipment and if the car supported it. This comes with both a power loss due to ac-dc-ac conversion and it adds premature wear to your battery. A normal person might cycle their battery once in a week or two whereas you'd be doing it at least once a day (especially if you plan to drive it as well).

    Instead you could invest in their Tesla Powerwall product which is made for this kind of use and it's only $3000 per unit vs the much higher cost of an EV car battery.

    In sum, although it can be done, it's not a great idea in my book when there are cheaper, better, alternatives.
     
  3. Saghost

    Saghost Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2013
    Messages:
    2,998
    Location:
    Delaware
    Tesla hasn't given you the hardware or the software to do that, though it's possible that the CHAdeMO adapter and one of the Japanese CHAdeMO power export units could work.

    In principle it's viable, though you're putting cycles on the car's battery for limited money. Of course, you need time of use rates to make it work.
     
  4. Dogwhistle

    Dogwhistle Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2015
    Messages:
    25
    Location:
    Dela-where?
    I was involved in Vehicle-to-Grid program with the University of Delaware as a trial user for the past 2 years. I had a Mini-E (recently returned) that was modified by UD to receive and give 18 KW AC. I have an EVSE rated the same, both were/are running proprietary software and hardware. In concept, it works great, where the grid provider can address the connected cars as an individual power station to draw load and smooth spikes in the grid, which they are willing to pay you for. The big issue as alluded to, is the willingness of manufacturers to allow such continual cycling, and still warrant the batteries. That will be the biggest hurdle for future V2G programs.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Informative x 2
  5. Raindog1

    Raindog1 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2016
    Messages:
    40
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Thanks for your insight.
     
  6. deonb

    deonb Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,020
    Location:
    Redmond, WA
    I wish that the Enron shenanigans with the rolling blackouts in California was ongoing now. If that was happening, Tesla would have given us the ability to draw power from the car for sure.

    I don't think power to grid is necessarily cost effective (you'll lose more of the battery value than you gain by the grid resell), but to be able to draw power for a few hours every couple of months during power outages would be very valuable.

    California must have 24x7x365 grid reliability, but in the PNW where it feels like our utilities just directly use trees to hold up our power-lines, we're not as lucky.
     
  7. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,232
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    They probably still wouldn't for at minimum two simple reasons:
    • They have a lower cost competing product (Powerwall)
    • You'd get more battery claims within the vehicle warranty period... which gives Tesla a bad name.
    The Powerwall isn't just for solar energy storage, it's for exactly the situations you're describing, either for use during power outages, storing energy during cheaper hours, or selling back to the grid to even out spikes in usage.
     
  8. SageBrush

    SageBrush Active Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2015
    Messages:
    1,679
    Location:
    Colorado
    I anticipate a near future where utilities become openly hostile to home PV, and powerWalls push the advantage to the homeowner.
     
  9. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2016
    Messages:
    3,203
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    Car to grid is no different than "anything" to grid. in the US...all you need is an interconnection agreement. I have one. The electric company doesn't know or care how I'm supplying power to the grid....all they care about is the fact that "I am" supplying power to the grid (at half the price of their re-sale rate ). I've been supplying power to the grid for years using Solar. Before that I used the same equipment to supply power to the grid using wind.

    You can track my solar progress here SolarEdge
     
    • Like x 1
  10. JeffK

    JeffK Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2016
    Messages:
    2,232
    Location:
    Indianapolis
    While I agree, it doesn't change the fact that utilities are not legally obliged to pay for that power. Depending on the state that might equate to fraud if you're taking money from the utility company. As of 2012, Delaware was the only state that had vehicles explicitly included in the state law according to this paper on the topic.
    http://scholarship.law.wm.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1540&context=wmelpr

    More recently I believe other states like California have started in include vehicles in their laws regarding energy fed back to the grid.
     
  11. freds

    freds Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Messages:
    247
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Well numbers always tell the tale. You can bet that this has already appeared on Tesla's crystal ball.

    Imagine this scenario; your model 3 comes with a four year warrantee (no need coddle Model S and X owners with eight years); however if you let Tesla manage your state of charge and cycles on the battery you get a ten year warranty and your energy cost for driving is only $10.00 per month.

    On the utility side they say ok we have a buy in of 40% of our cars and we can provide XX billion watts of on demand short term power.

    Run with it.....
     

Share This Page