Quoted $8,000 to install 220V. Help!

[noshadow]

I just got a quote for how much it would be to get a 220V plug in my garage, $8K! Sure I'm buying a nice car, but I did not think it would be so expensive to get the garage ready to charge a Model Y.

1. Install Nema 14-50 (located on the left side inside the garage) on dedicated 240V-40amp from your Main Panel with 70LF Romex Cable 6-3 copper plus 30LF wire in pvc conduit 18 inches below ground. Cost: $3,000
2. Trenching: $5,000

My garage is detached and basically on the other side of a 5,000sq/ft lot from the main electrical panel. The trenching assumes it's concrete all the way, but it's not (mostly just dirt/grass), so that might be a lot more than it would cost. But still, this is crazy.

The garage subpanel doesn't really show much, but it seems like there isn't a dedicated wire to it that can do 220V for the Nema 14-50.

Maybe this is just how much it'll cost? Any ideas? Or I can just use the regular outlet and have the slowest charging ever.

The capacity of my main electrical panel: Main Panel 240v-125amp (Brand: Eaton).

 

[SageBrush]

Do your own trenching, and then find a contractor who is sane. You can bore under concrete.
In the meantime just use L1 (120v) charging. You will get 4-5 miles an hour so if you charge every night it is likely all you need anyway, good for ~ 15,000 miles a year.

 

[TelsaPerson]

Agree. Find a contractor who is sane.
I'm in San Diego -- A.L.L. the folks on the list Tesla pushed out as possible charger installers were grossly overpriced and beyond market on their quotes (and in the scope of work they claimed to be done.) <FYI: my house is new construction and was built anticipating installing a charger -- conduit to garage was already in place -- and still one Tesla list contractor insisted he would have the trench.>

I asked around neighbors for referrals. Interviewed 8 folk. I got bids from $700 to $4,500. I went with great guy for $850,

 

[noshadow]

Thank you! I'll ask my handyman that I usually go with, and maybe reach out on Thumbtack for some bids as well!

 

[MXLRplus]

IMO, as a layman who has installed a lot of electrical equipment and several EVSE's -

Open the house breaker panel.
Normally the biggest breaker will be the garage.
How many amps is it?
If it is >=50 amps, I'd add a 40 amp breaker at the garage subpanel, run 6 gauge wire to a 14-50R outlet and call it a day. Set the car at 32 amps in the charging menu. That is all the speed you need to charge a Tesla overnight since it would be rare to arrive with <10% or charge to 100% every day. That give you a minimum of 18 amp remaining for the garage, or 4,320 watts of power. There are two hots, or twin 18 amp 120 circuits avail.

$200 in parts. 4 hrs labor if you're slow.

 

[electracity]

That's a pre-coronavirus price in NorCal. You want the post price.

 

[paulk]

if you fail miserably to get a cheaper quote, you should probably just buy a 5-20 adapter for the standard 120v outlet. at the least, you can get from 120-12a charging to 120-16a charging. you may have to change an outlet to support the plug after verifying the breaker is 20 amp (lots of electricians install 15a outlets on 20a circuits).

 

[gaswalla]

Agree with @electracity above.
I'd relook around in a week - those folks that were gouging will be begging for a few hundred dollars - esp in the Bay Area.

 

[RGloverii]

Don't tell the contractors you are installing the circuit for a Tesla. You'll be subjected to the "Tesla Tax".

Instead, tell them it's for a welder or air compressor. I'm willing to bet you're going to end up with lower quotes that way!

 

[Rocky_H]

OK, yeah the detached and trenching and long wire distance is a lot of it.

I just got a quote for how much it would be to get a 220V plug in my garage, $8K! Sure I'm buying a nice car, but I did not think it would be so expensive to get the garage ready to charge a Model Y.

1. Install Nema 14-50 (located on the left side inside the garage) on dedicated 240V-40amp from your Main Panel with 70LF Romex Cable 6-3 copper plus 30LF wire in pvc conduit 18 inches below ground. Cost: $3,000

Whenever people are getting high quotes, though, I always suggest to please reconsider why everyone seems to default to a 14-50 outlet without even thinking about it! First off, scalpers have been hoarding the 14-50 plugs from Tesla and reselling them on Ebay for crazy prices so Tesla is out of stock most of the time, simply because so many new Tesla buyers are stuck in this box of not being able to think of any other kind of outlet. Tesla sells like 10 different kinds of adapter plugs!

So with people getting shocking quotes, frequently it's because they are specifying a high level of circuit, and maybe it requires bigger upgrades to their panel or something like that. Asking what could be done for a 20A or 30A circuit sometimes gets under those expensive steps. In your case, it doesn't sound like there is one big thing like that, but it's just a lot of work for a lot of distance. If you were to go with a smaller circuit, you could do thinner wire, which could save a lot of money for such a long run.

You also don't need the dual 120/240V outlet type like a 14-50. The neutral just isn't used, and that extra unused neutral for such a very long run is going to be a BIG waste of money in this.

Also, with thinner wire and one less wire, you can use smaller conduit in the trenching, because it's less full. That also saves some of the cost.

I just got a quote for how much it would be to get a 220V plug in my garage

So you didn't just get a quote for "a 220V plug". You requested a quote for a specific, unnecessarily expensive kind. I recommend to people to request the quotes as: "I want to get a 240V circuit run to here. What would be the cost options for different amp levels?"

 

[MXLRplus]

OK, yeah the detached and trenching and long wire distance is a lot of it.


Whenever people are getting high quotes, though, I always suggest to please reconsider why everyone seems to default to a 14-50 outlet without even thinking about it! First off, scalpers have been hoarding the 14-50 plugs from Tesla and reselling them on Ebay for crazy prices so Tesla is out of stock most of the time, simply because so many new Tesla buyers are stuck in this box of not being able to think of any other kind of outlet. Tesla sells like 10 different kinds of adapter plugs!

So with people getting shocking quotes, frequently it's because they are specifying a high level of circuit, and maybe it requires bigger upgrades to their panel or something like that. Asking what could be done for a 20A or 30A circuit sometimes gets under those expensive steps. In your case, it doesn't sound like there is one big thing like that, but it's just a lot of work for a lot of distance. If you were to go with a smaller circuit, you could do thinner wire, which could save a lot of money for such a long run.

You also don't need the dual 120/240V outlet type like a 14-50. The neutral just isn't used, and that extra unused neutral for such a very long run is going to be a BIG waste of money in this.

Also, with thinner wire and one less wire, you can use smaller conduit in the trenching, because it's less full. That also saves some of the cost.


So you didn't just get a quote for "a 220V plug". You requested a quote for a specific, unnecessarily expensive kind. I recommend to people to request the quotes as: "I want to get a 240V circuit run to here. What would be the cost options for different amp levels?"

The reason for the "Church of the 14-50" religion is not obvious to most new EV owners. 14-50 is the most common 240v outlet for RVs and RV parks and RV hookups at hotels. Adapters for 14-50 are plentiful at RV shops and online. 14-50 construction hardware is common. You can break a 14-50 into two separate 120v outlets with a simple Y splitter since it's a 4 wire (H+H N G).

The fact Tesla is not giving out 14-50's free anymore (my 1st UMC has it) is a PITA. Bean Counters need to understand they nerf the car when they don't ship with an L2 by hundreds of dollars of value. Cheap EVs don't come with L2. Good ones do.

 

[SageBrush]

The fact Tesla is not giving out 14-50's free anymore (my 1st UMC has it) is a PITA. Bean Counters need to understand they nerf the car when they don't ship with an L2 by hundreds of dollars of value. Cheap EVs don't come with L2. Good ones do.

Tesla hands out free 120/240v mobile EVSE (aka 'L2') with every car.

You are talking about the 14-50 adapter which is extra but cheap.

 

[Rocky_H]

The reason for the "Church of the 14-50" religion is not obvious to most new EV owners. 14-50 is the most common 240v outlet for RVs and RV parks and RV hookups at hotels.

That's it--you can stop there. That was the reason. It had an important purpose back in 2012, when they first started shipping the Model S, when there was almost no charging infrastructure in this country. So to be able to go somewhere outside people's 100 mile "out and back" radius, they did pick the relatively high power outlet that was most commonly used at campgrounds and RV parks. So that's it. It was for charging away from home. But now that it's 2020, charging infrastructure in this country is way more plentiful, and the 14-50 thing is pretty much just a vestigial tail, like an artifact that just continues on because it's what people have heard. There isn't much of a reason now to push people toward that outlet type when most will never charge at an RV park anymore.

The fact Tesla is not giving out 14-50's free anymore (my 1st UMC has it) is a PITA.

Nah. Sticking people with one specific kind of plug doesn't really make sense when people's installations at home don't really have any reason why they should pick that particular one. A 6-30 or 6-50 would also be perfectly valid and common options.

Bean Counters need to understand they nerf the car when they don't ship with an L2 by hundreds of dollars of value. Cheap EVs don't come with L2. Good ones do.

Oh, quit being dishonest!! The car does come with a L2 EVSE! And yes, that is worth hundreds of dollars! You are right that some cheap electric cars don't. They come with those pathetic 120V only cords with the 5-15 plug permanently molded on, and you don't have a choice except to buy a separate better, more expensive EVSE that costs hundreds of dollars. So Tesla does provide the very excellent and expensive main part of it that is very capable and versatile, and they just give people the choice to buy whatever $35 plug goes with whatever type of outlet they choose to install. It makes sense, and it's all good.

 

[SageBrush]

That's it--you can stop there. That was the reason. It had an important purpose back in 2012, when they first started shipping the Model S, when there was almost no charging infrastructure in this country. So to be able to go somewhere outside people's 100 mile "out and back" radius, they did pick the relatively high power outlet that was most commonly used at campgrounds and RV parks. So that's it. It was for charging away from home. But now that it's 2020, charging infrastructure in this country is way more plentiful, and the 14-50 thing is pretty much just a vestigial tail, like an artifact that just continues on because it's what people have heard. There isn't much of a reason now to push people toward that outlet type when most will never charge at an RV park anymore.

This is an interesting argument, but I'm more inclined to say 'if you have a good reason to use something other than 14-50 go ahead, but otherwise use 14-50."

My reasoning is mostly to turn 14-50 into something of a quasi-standard so that where ever EVs go, if there is an L2 outlet the adapter is likely to fit. Those destinations are not only RV parks for charging; they might include friends I am visiting or businesses I stop at. We Tesla owners are doubly blessed by owing J1772 adapters but other EVs may be stuck if they visit a Tesla home with an unusual socket.

 

[MXLRplus]

That's it--you can stop there. That was the reason. It had an important purpose back in 2012, when they first started shipping the Model S, when there was almost no charging infrastructure in this country. So to be able to go somewhere outside people's 100 mile "out and back" radius, they did pick the relatively high power outlet that was most commonly used at campgrounds and RV parks. So that's it. It was for charging away from home. But now that it's 2020, charging infrastructure in this country is way more plentiful, and the 14-50 thing is pretty much just a vestigial tail, like an artifact that just continues on because it's what people have heard. There isn't much of a reason now to push people toward that outlet type when most will never charge at an RV park anymore.


Nah. Sticking people with one specific kind of plug doesn't really make sense when people's installations at home don't really have any reason why they should pick that particular one. A 6-30 or 6-50 would also be perfectly valid and common options.


Oh, quit being dishonest!! The car does come with a L2 EVSE! And yes, that is worth hundreds of dollars! You are right that some cheap electric cars don't. They come with those pathetic 120V only cords with the 5-15 plug permanently molded on, and you don't have a choice except to buy a separate better, more expensive EVSE that costs hundreds of dollars. So Tesla does provide the very excellent and expensive main part of it that is very capable and versatile, and they just give people the choice to buy whatever $35 plug goes with whatever type of outlet they choose to install. It makes sense, and it's all good.

I'm not sure you should be calling me a liar. 14-50 is the reason. It has a neutral. It's robust, and it's everywhere. I've had one at my house since before Tesla made a single production car as have thousands of other RV or trailer owners. In 2009 I inadvertently prepped my house for EVs. I have 400 amp service to the transformer and included 8 x 240v x 50a outlets.

My house does not have Electric Dryer support so there is no need for electric dryer support on my end.

I own 5 EVSEs and installed twice that many. All 240/208. First one in 2012 which is still in operation, outside, from 25-115°F.

My $97,000 dollar Tesla EV is not delivered with a L2 portable SYSTEM. It is sold as a 120v. There are no 14-50 L2 pigtails available from Tesla for new owners.

I have 2 Tesla UMCs. One came with a L2 SYSTEM from the factory (2018), the other did not (2020). The Audi eTron sells with L2 support (14-50). IIRC, so does the Hyundai? And a few others. All are less money.

Yes I do have most of the pigtails for emergencies, but if I didn't already have a Tesla 14-50 pigtail prior to delivery, I'd be forced to use J1772 on it since 14-50 is not shipped with cars anymore.

You should stop misleading people into thinking unplugging your dryer is a safe and practical way to charge cars before you burn somebody's house down when they kludge an extension cord to it.

 

[MXLRplus]

Tesla hands out free 120/240v mobile EVSE (aka 'L2') with every car.

You are talking about the 14-50 adapter which is extra but cheap.

My second Tesla EVSE came with only a 5-15. 14-50 is not for sale at Tesla at this time or when I picked up my car.

 

[Rocky_H]

My reasoning is mostly to turn 14-50 into something of a quasi-standard so that where ever EVs go,

Oh, I really hope not. Trying to make an outlet type with a useless unused neutral wire as the standard for electric vehicle charging doesn't really make much sense. Check this thread:
NEMA 14-50 is dead - all hail NEMA 6-50

I'm not sure you should be calling me a liar.

Why not? You deserved it for being dishonest when you suggested that Tesla does not ship with a level 2 EVSE. It does, so it was not just me who called you out on your dishonesty.

There are no 14-50 L2 pigtails available from Tesla for new owners.

Eh, that changes every other day, as do most of the items in their online store, like the CHAdeMO adapters and other things. They run very lean on their inventory. If that is the plug they want, people can get it.

You should stop misleading people into thinking unplugging your dryer is a safe and practical way to charge cars before you burn somebody's house down when they kludge an extension cord to it.

Wow, you are really trying to earn that dishonest label now! Stop putting words in people's mouths that they never said. Nowhere did I suggest unplugging dryers. I do recommend that people should set something up that can stay permanently plugged in. It's your insistence of exactly which type of outlet that should be that is debatable.

 

[SageBrush]

My second Tesla EVSE came with only a 5-15. 14-50 is not for sale at Tesla at this time or when I picked up my car.

ok, so there is a supply chain disruption of the adapter. That has little to do with your statement that Tesla does not supply L2 which is false. When that shortage is resolved, are you going to complain that Tesla did not supply the 14-50 receptacle ?

 

[MXLRplus]

Oh, I really hope not. Trying to make an outlet type with a useless unused neutral wire as the standard for electric vehicle charging doesn't really make much sense. Check this thread:
NEMA 14-50 is dead - all hail NEMA 6-50


Why not? You deserved it for being dishonest when you suggested that Tesla does not ship with a level 2 EVSE. It does, so it was not just me who called you out on your dishonesty.


Eh, that changes every other day, as do most of the items in their online store, like the CHAdeMO adapters and other things. They run very lean on their inventory. If that is the plug they want, people can get it.


Wow, you are really trying to earn that dishonest label now! Stop putting words in people's mouths that they never said. Nowhere did I suggest unplugging dryers.

Neutrals are critical to devices with 120v control boards. Or to get 120v from the outlet. Or to support an RV or trailer. Or to have the most flexible R made. 14-50R have adapters from 5-15 on up at all RV stores.

The idea that a receptacle can have only a single purpose is short-sighted. Watch the parade long enough and find that everything is dynamic.

That is nice to know that Tesla didn't put up a fictitious store on the web. But to a new owner who pre-wired their home or had existing wiring for 14-50 "backorder" is a very, very slow way to charge a 100 kWh car.

You suggested whatever Tesla has in stock which is a dryer plug. Where do you find dryer plugs in houses?

 

[PJFW8]

6-50 0r 6-30 are great options. No downside for EV charging. For a long run the wire alone will save money. Adapter is same price $35 and usually available. NEMA 14-50 is dead - all hail NEMA 6-50