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Racing Brake XT910 vs XT970

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For completeness sake. Here is a photo of how much CRC I used. Tip: After installation with CRC, set the parking brake and leave it overnight.

0AEDC665-03C4-4438-A823-39341588B5A8.jpeg
 
Sounds like a lot easier than the copper RTV I used. That left dried/cured residue, which I'll have to clean off at some point.

Highlights - Disc Brake Quiet forms a water resistant, high-temperature film that absorbs noise while quieting squeaks & squeals. Specially formulated to dampen the vibrations that cause brake noise. For use on the back of non-shimmed disc pads.

How to Remove - Remove with a degreaser or brake cleaner product.

You can read all about it here - Disc Brake Quiet 4OZ, 118ML
 
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Whoops, guess I made a mistake getting rid of my OEM pads after going to XT910

As someone who plans on doing some novice tracking this year (so far only autox), should I just move forward on going to XT970 or endless before my first event?

The question of pads depends on how much you like to change pads(XT910 & XT970) vs. paying extra for a dual-purpose pad (Endless). Bear in mind, Endless will reach its limit at the track if you drive it hard, aka trying to set a lap record.
 
Whoops, guess I made a mistake getting rid of my OEM pads after going to XT910

As someone who plans on doing some novice tracking this year (so far only autox), should I just move forward on going to XT970 or endless before my first event?

IMO for autocross you don't need track pads. Speeds are lower and sessions are significantly shorter. XT910 should be sufficient.

Once you put the car on a road course and go for 15-20 min sessions then you may want to upgrade.
 
The question of pads depends on how much you like to change pads(XT910 & XT970) vs. paying extra for a dual-purpose pad (Endless). Bear in mind, Endless will reach its limit at the track if you drive it hard, aka trying to set a lap record.

As a novice, I doubt that will happen for a while. But swapping pads sounds like a PIA to do often. Maybe not that bad, originally thought the same about changing my tires every time for racing.

more worried about over braking as a novice! How much are the endless pads for a full set of 4?

IMO for autocross you don't need track pads. Speeds are lower and sessions are significantly shorter. XT910 should be sufficient.

Once you put the car on a road course and go for 15-20 min sessions then you may want to upgrade.

Yea, that's why I originally only got XT910 they are great for autox. But now looking into doing several road course events this year and worried they won't hold up. Trying to decide if I should preemptively swap or not.
 
As a novice, I doubt that will happen for a while. But swapping pads sounds like a PIA to do often. Maybe not that bad, originally thought the same about changing my tires every time for racing.

more worried about over braking as a novice! How much are the endless pads for a full set of 4?



Yea, that's why I originally only got XT910 they are great for autox. But now looking into doing several road course events this year and worried they won't hold up. Trying to decide if I should preemptively swap or not.


Honestly it's not bad swapping pads once you do it a few times. I think it took me an hour to hour and fifteen last time to swap pads, rotors, and tires/wheels. Maybe adds 5-10 minutes per corner. 2x 15mm bolts (actually Torx bolts but I use a 15mm socket) and the caliper is loose. Piston spreader in front, 9v battery to retract parking brake screw and push in piston with my thumbs out back. Pads slide in and out fairly easily.
 
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Question for you guys.

If you will remember a few weeks ago I thought I grooved my rotors up pretty bad on the track. As some of you suggested, and RB later confirmed, it is pad material transfer rather than rotor wear.

I tried today to clean them up with steel wool and brake cleaner as recommended by RB. I even got a MAP gas torch out to heat the rotor up, made zero progress removing the pad deposits. Torch would only heat the rotor surface up to 300 degrees or so (measured by IR temp gun), so maybe it wasn't enough, but it's all I have.

Someone suggested that the pad deposits would clean themselves up with street driving. After the track day I swapped my stock rotors and 910 pads back in to regain a firmer pedal feel for street driving, so have very few street miles on the 970s and RB rotors since the track day. I was thinking that if the pads grooved out and deposited ridges on the rotors that the grooves and ridges would line up and progress would be slow, so didn't worry about it at the time.

Had a thought today that if I swapped pad positions that the grooves in the pads would no longer align with the deposit ridges on the rotors, and that might help clean the rotors up some.

Is there any merit to this idea?

IMG_20200126_101935.jpg
 
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Oh also, I've been watching SMT and brake temps on the street the past few days. First thing I noticed is that all brake temps have EST (estimated) designation, so that's the first hint that it's a calculation rather than direct measurement. Brake temp also seems to follow ambient temp with some damping/delay factor as long as I stay off the brakes, so there's clue #2. So far I have never seen a difference between left and right for front or rear, so there's another clue I think.
 
Oh also, I've been watching SMT and brake temps on the street the past few days. First thing I noticed is that all brake temps have EST (estimated) designation, so that's the first hint that it's a calculation rather than direct measurement. Brake temp also seems to follow ambient temp with some damping/delay factor as long as I stay off the brakes, so there's clue #2. So far I have never seen a difference between left and right for front or rear, so there's another clue I think.
I've seen differences betwwen left and right, but for sure these are estimated temps. If only we knew how the estimates are arrived at...
 
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Question for you guys.

If you will remember a few weeks ago I thought I grooved my rotors up pretty bad on the track. As some of you suggested, and RB later confirmed, it is pad material transfer rather than rotor wear.

I tried today to clean them up with steel wool and brake cleaner as recommended by RB. I even got a MAP gas torch out to heat the rotor up, made zero progress removing the pad deposits. Torch would only heat the rotor surface up to 300 degrees or so (measured by IR temp gun), so maybe it wasn't enough, but it's all I have.

Someone suggested that the pad deposits would clean themselves up with street driving. After the track day I swapped my stock rotors and 910 pads back in to regain a firmer pedal feel for street driving, so have very few street miles on the 970s and RB rotors since the track day. I was thinking that if the pads grooved out and deposited ridges on the rotors that the grooves and ridges would line up and progress would be slow, so didn't worry about it at the time.

Had a thought today that if I swapped pad positions that the grooves in the pads would no longer align with the deposit ridges on the rotors, and that might help clean the rotors up some.

Is there any merit to this idea?

View attachment 511898

Swap pad position, inside/outside will help. That’s what I do as well. From experience, one week of street driving with low regen would clean off the deposit. Of course your result may very.
 
I've seen differences betwwen left and right, but for sure these are estimated temps. If only we knew how the estimates are arrived at...
The only way it can work - they calculate loss of heat from speed and Ambient temperature based on rotor radiation efficiency, while calculating gain of heat from car weight and car speed loss and dividing on heat capacity splitted by piston forces rear vs front. So if you change heat capacity or pads or rotors or car weight - it will be off by any number.
 
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The only way it can work - they calculate loss of heat from speed and Ambient temperature based on rotor radiation efficiency, while calculating gain of heat from car weight and car speed loss and dividing on heat capacity splitted by piston forces rear vs front. So if you change heat capacity or pads or rotors or car weight - it will be off by any number.
Wouldn't that mean if you put more efficient pads in place of the OE ones, the car would think the pads are getting hotter more quickly and throw the high brake temperature warning message earlier?

I suppose I should run the OE pads and track pads on the same track in the same conditions and see what the estimated temperatures of both are. Not sure it's going to be that useful though and they're a pain to change trackside. :(
 
I don’t recall encountering any high brake temp warning in any of my track days. Five at Laguna Seca, two at Buttonwillow.

The only warning I have gotten is the front collision warning when I forgot to turn it off. It scared the bejesus out of me when I close the gap with the car in front in braking zone of T2 at LS. :eek:
 
I assume that they don't use inclination/wind or road surface resistance to estimate work of brakes vs natural slow down, so they could be calculating just based on a piston pressure and speed. This way if pad with a higher friction coefficient is used - it will calculate temps as significantly lower than real. And when glazed or just low friction pads are used - it will overestimate the temperature, since you will have to push harder to get same results.

One thing is obvious - if pads/rotors/calipers are not stock - whole estimate doesn't make any sense. And there is no correction factor that can be applied - it would be easier to just do own estimator.
Wouldn't that mean if you put more efficient pads in place of the OE ones, the car would think the pads are getting hotter more quickly and throw the high brake temperature warning message earlier?

I suppose I should run the OE pads and track pads on the same track in the same conditions and see what the estimated temperatures of both are. Not sure it's going to be that useful though and they're a pain to change trackside. :(