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Radar deleted on all new Model Y and Model 3. Is FSD worth it?

cybergates

Member
Feb 14, 2017
545
232
So Cal
the phantom braking is mostly solved for my 2016 Model S that was upgraded from HW2->HW2/MCU1->2. But the 2019 Model 3 HW3 I still get phantom braking pretty regularly on the freeway. Interestingly the Model S is mostly freeway driven - it's as if the car "learned" where not to phantom brake? is that possible? I do bug report but we've heard that doesn't do much. Whereas the 3 is seldom driven on the freeway. Do the cameras calibrate themselves even more after time? There's a neural net sure, but should the phantom braking be the same (i.e. same overpass etc) for all HW version cars?
 

KiloV

Member
Jun 26, 2019
28
70
YYC
I have a vehicle produced in May of this year, with no radar. I have experienced many instances of phantom breaking while using adaptive cruise control on two lane roadways. My 2019 Mercedes A250 was a joy, compared to this.
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m only familiar with AP/FSD on my Model 3, so it’s useful to hear about the relative merits and drawbacks of other systems.

i think there are a few of us still on the fence about the MY vs something else as our next vehicle, so please keep sharing these comparisons.
 
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stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,774
5,691
the phantom braking is mostly solved for my 2016 Model S that was upgraded from HW2->HW2/MCU1->2. But the 2019 Model 3 HW3 I still get phantom braking pretty regularly on the freeway. Interestingly the Model S is mostly freeway driven - it's as if the car "learned" where not to phantom brake? is that possible? I do bug report but we've heard that doesn't do much. Whereas the 3 is seldom driven on the freeway. Do the cameras calibrate themselves even more after time? There's a neural net sure, but should the phantom braking be the same (i.e. same overpass etc) for all HW version cars?
I don't know if it relates to phantom braking, but yes, there is an auto camera calibration that happens. People who don't drive their cars on multi-lane highways have reported that calibration failing to finish. They must drive the car on a highway at least a couple miles for that calibration to finish. Whether there is a continual refreshing of that calibration to improve it from daily driving however is unknown.
 
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Jefrucci

Member
Feb 18, 2021
29
22
Virginia Beach
Radar induced phantom braking can be quite annoying tho... The two most common cases for me:
1. If someone in front of you turns right, and you are the right distance behind, such that your path is clear because the car in front turned already, but is still within view of the radar, my car will slam on the brakes, even tho my travel lane is completely clear. It doens't come to a complete stop, it acts more like a brake check, as it releases the brakes when the car in front is no longer in view. But it sure does induces road rage in the people behind me. Altho, this only happens if I have the drivers assist active... If I don't, it doesn't do this in this case.
2. There is a curve near my daughter's school. Right at the apex of the curve, there is a light post... If I'm in the right lane, my car will slam on the brakes 99% of the time if I approach that curve > 35mph (45mph speed limit)... So to compensate, I always have to make sure I'm in the left lane, when coming up that road. Phantom braking occurs in this situation for me, regardless if I have the drivers assists on or off, probably because the computer thinks an accident is imminent, as many times during this scenario, it also tightens the shoulder belts.

Note: The above is not for a Tesla, as I'm still waiting for a VIN... I will be sure to drive down that road when I drop off my daughter after taking delivery of my Y.
My MY does all of the above. I have to disengage AP if a car in front of me is turning or if a car way ahead of me crosses my lane turning because my car will slam on brakes in AP from FAR away! The other day I was on AP 45 MPH road, there were bikers ON THE SIDEWALK next to road and car slammed on brakes. Even when just on cruise control it does this. If I see any of this I have to disengage all assisted driving feature so car doesn’t slam on brakes! Also if I’m on AP on interstate car will stay in its lane but does a LOT of drifting within the lane not smooth at all! I’m wondering if vision only will help with these issues? I can’t imagine paying 10K for FSD unless it gets rid of the above problems? What have people who have purchased FSD gotten for their money thus far? I don’t see value if regular AP stinks!! I’m hoping vision only will improve some of these issues because I just don’t use any driving aids anymore on this technically advanced car it’s too frustrating. Any thoughts?
 

Fourdoor

Member
May 31, 2016
859
684
North East Arkansas
Just took delivery yesterday, and AP seems to work pretty good, not perfect but pretty good. I hate that when driving on a strait road it constantly nags me to put my hands on the wheel (apply torque to wheel) and I have been told by a co-worker that has had his Model 3 for about a year that you can avoid phantom braking in situations where you SEE what is going to freak out the system by putting light pressure on the accelerator and then releasing it after the "danger" is passed.

Keith
 
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DfwRedMYP

Member
May 30, 2021
26
18
Dallas
I haven’t noticed any phantom breaking yet. I had some with my SQ5 both with ACC enabled and while just doing standard driving and having the car stop. I also had it reversing quite a few times. No issues so far with autopilot but I don’t have too many miles on it yet. All the problem areas have worked well so far so I’m gaining confidence with it.
 

electricloris

Member
Apr 27, 2021
86
50
Texas
I haven’t noticed any phantom breaking yet. I had some with my SQ5 both with ACC enabled and while just doing standard driving and having the car stop. I also had it reversing quite a few times. No issues so far with autopilot but I don’t have too many miles on it yet. All the problem areas have worked well so far so I’m gaining confidence with it.
Just hit 1k Miles and its been pretty smooth sailing, even today in a bit of a rain situation, only issue is 3 car spots sometimes in traffic people wanna cut in front
 
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jeremymc7

Active Member
Feb 3, 2013
1,523
685
U.S.
It’s all relative.

Do you get what you pay for out of “FSD”? Currently no not really. In the “future”, we’ll that’s been a long painful moving target.

Did I buy in, yes, but when it was $6K. I knew the level of performance. I knew it was delayed and likely still going to be delayed. I wanted to play with it and subscription wasn’t even a conversation. It also has some resale value, at least not as a trade in with Tesla.

But I wanted to play with it, long term.

Plenty of people buy things that aren’t worth the money. Plenty others don’t understand it either.
 

JerseyShoreMY

Member
Apr 23, 2021
185
272
Jersey Shore
FSD is never worth it
Price is what you pay, value is what you get, it has been said.
FSD has a cost, and value is what you place on it. Like EV's from Tesla rather than an ICE for driving.

We have tried Tesla FSD and do not think at this level it is really FSD yet, so no deal for us today. Perhaps in the future with the subscription model we might use it on a long road trip... but still this is not likely as it gets the driver into trouble. As for daily driving actual FSD... not so much use with our real world traffic here in NJ. AP with TACC does the job, and even then, requires regular intervention to prevent a collision. Those who try it know what we mean.
 
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rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
641
327
NJ
I try to let my AP drive but the way it takes turns is so differently than how I would it makes me nervous. It seems to want to stay in the center of the lane at all times, but on a two lane highway that puts it uncomfortably close to the yellow line in the middle. Most human drivers tend to give a little more room to the opposing traffic when on the inside track around turns, at least here in NJ. It just gets too close to stuff. It is nice on straight multi-lane highways though.
 
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jeremymc7

Active Member
Feb 3, 2013
1,523
685
U.S.
On narrow two lane roads with lots of stuff on the right right (close building, parked cars, driveways) I always stay pinned to the center lane. On open roads with nothing that might pop out on the right, I stay to the right. On freeway lanes I stay in the middle, unless I’m to the left with a barcode and no buffer space. Eventually I think AP/FSD will be similar, or learn what you feel comfortable, so long as it’s within reason.
 

rjpjnk

Member
Mar 12, 2021
641
327
NJ
Agreed. For now the AP/FSD is not quite as good as a good human driver when it comes to positioning on the road but I believe it will be one day after more learning. We seem to consider more variables when determining where is safest and most efficient to place the car (such as a priori information about what lies ahead and experience with certain intersections, or where deer are likely to jump out of the woods, etc).
 
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avs007

Member
May 14, 2021
276
197
PacNW
I try to let my AP drive but the way it takes turns is so differently than how I would it makes me nervous. It seems to want to stay in the center of the lane at all times, but on a two lane highway that puts it uncomfortably close to the yellow line in the middle. Most human drivers tend to give a little more room to the opposing traffic when on the inside track around turns, at least here in NJ. It just gets too close to stuff. It is nice on straight multi-lane highways though.
I wish drivers around here do that... Around here, people constantly cross the double yellow on curves, it drives me nuts.
 

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