Radar deleted on all new Model Y and Model 3. Is FSD worth it?

[Kevin777]

Well, if radar is truly needed, they can simply reactivate it for you. Idk what that means for people who are getting the radarless cars like me.

They won't transition you over until they use us as validation.

Is it worth getting it with out the radar? I don't know what to do. I'm thinking about picking up the car in a week

 

[rjpjnk]

I am holding off on mine for a while to see how they do.

 

[orion2001]

I'm holding off too. But I am very skeptical that they will ever go back to radar even when there isn't any part shortage any more. It would require them to retrofit radar on tens of thousands of vehicles (if not more) and admit that they were wrong in their decision.

I just don't see it happening. Given that vision-only has always been their long-term plan, I think this will end up going the same way as most other things where the users will end up being long-term beta testers till they hopefully get it somewhat right in the hopefully not too distant future.

The problem for Tesla is that because they've been selling FSD forever, at this point they can't even really upgrade sensors. Better radar, cheaper automotive lidar, etc. are all out of the question simply because their hands are tied due to unfulfilled promises made and sold to their customers. Other car companies meanwhile can continue to iterate on their software, algorithms AND hardware.

I'm personally pretty bummed out about this because I don't want to beta test Tesla Vision till it gets sorted out, but the odds of it working as well as before without being nerfed or radar coming back on the M3 and MY are extremely low. I was very keen on picking up a MY within the next 6-8 months but that is looking less likely. The only hope is if the new AP/FSD update ends up being a huge step change that also manages to make vision-only work extremely well. I'm doubtful about that because if they knew that to be true, they probably would have taken the radar out of the refreshed S and X as well.

 

[dyau]

I'm holding off too. But I am very skeptical that they will ever go back to radar even when there isn't any part shortage any more. It would require them to retrofit radar on tens of thousands of vehicles (if not more) and admit that they were wrong in their decision.

I just don't see it happening. Given that vision-only has always been their long-term plan, I think this will end up going the same way as most other things where the users will end up being long-term beta testers till they hopefully get it somewhat right in the hopefully not too distant future.

The problem for Tesla is that because they've been selling FSD forever, at this point they can't even really upgrade sensors. Better radar, cheaper automotive lidar, etc. are all out of the question simply because their hands are tied due to unfulfilled promises made and sold to their customers. Other car companies meanwhile can continue to iterate on their software, algorithms AND hardware.

I'm personally pretty bummed out about this because I don't want to beta test Tesla Vision till it gets sorted out, but the odds of it working as well as before without being nerfed or radar coming back on the M3 and MY are extremely low. I was very keen on picking up a MY within the next 6-8 months but that is looking less likely. The only hope is if the new AP/FSD update ends up being a huge step change that also manages to make vision-only work extremely well. I'm doubtful about that because if they knew that to be true, they probably would have taken the radar out of the refreshed S and X as well.

i am hopeful they will upgrade their hardware in the near future because i seriously doubt they will be competitive vs other manufacturers if they are keeping current hardware + vision only.

however, i doubt they will ever retrofit current/old cars. the biggest issue right now without radar is that it performs poorly in less than ideal conditions. well guess what, tesla never promised fsd in all weather conditions. im afraid all of these cara will fall under the "within spex" scrap heap.

 

[CowherPower]

I am very skeptical that they will ever go back to radar even when there isn't any part shortage any more. It would require them to retrofit radar on tens of thousands of vehicles (if not more) and admit that they were wrong in their decision.

I just don't see it happening. Given that vision-only has always been their long-term plan, I think this will end up going the same way as most other things where the users will end up being long-term beta testers till they hopefully get it somewhat right in the hopefully not too distant future.

I totally agree with the above. But the only thing that would make Elon reconsider this decision to drop radar is if consumers really push back and sales drop. Well, Tesla's stock dropped over 5% today, and at least according to this story, part of that could be due to their radar decision...

 

[dyau]

I totally agree with the above. But the only thing that would make Elon reconsider this decision to drop radar is if consumers really push back and sales drop. Well, Tesla's stock dropped over 5% today, and at least according to this story, part of that could be due to their radar decision...

View attachment 669414

looks like there should be ample supply of radar and lumbar support sensors coming soon....

 

[bruce4000]

I totally agree with the above. But the only thing that would make Elon reconsider this decision to drop radar is if consumers really push back and sales drop. Well, Tesla's stock dropped over 5% today, and at least according to this story, part of that could be due to their radar decision...

View attachment 669414

I believe only US cars have the radar removed so that doesn’t explain china. Also China net orders is not the same as China deliveries so remains to be seen if China is actually down or just FUD.

 

[CowherPower]

I believe only US cars have the radar removed so that doesn’t explain china

Excellent point - I stand corrected. But perhaps they see the writing on the wall in that Elon will soon remove radar from all models. I know that's been his plan for quite some time, but I'm just not sure I agree with it. I just can't see how cameras alone will be superior to cameras+radar in situations like fog where you can't see 20 feet in front of the car. Obviously you wouldn't be using cruise-control in this situation, but you would certainly want emergency braking to be on high alert and functioning correctly.

 

[DayTrippin]

Reality has sunk in for me and I highly doubt, like others, that the radar is ever coming back. I am not sure the current system w/out radar will ever be at parity with the old one. So if I want MY or M3, and want the radar, I'll have to look at inventory and see if any have it (unlikely) or buy a used one that has it.

Looking at the used market, the prices are 5k+ more than the new one I have on order for similar options. While I would prefer the radar, I am not willing to spend an extra 5k to get it.

So as much as I detest, I'll probably just bite the bullet so to speak and buy one and hope that sometime in the next month or so, hope Tesla Vision improves enough to be useful in my situations.

 

[Genedr]

I wonder what that means for those of us with radar-equipped vehicles? Does that mean that FSD will not work the same as non-radar cars? Or that we'd require hardware changes to run FSD? Lots of questions, as usual, no answers!

Good question. My MY delivered 6/20 included FSD (when available) and presumably radar and the necessary hardware. Would guess (*total guess*) that these cars eventually have radar disabled and Tesla Vision activated….but then again…..

 

[Genedr]

Radar induced phantom braking can be quite annoying tho... The two most common cases for me:
1. If someone in front of you turns right, and you are the right distance behind, such that your path is clear because the car in front turned already, but is still within view of the radar, my car will slam on the brakes, even tho my travel lane is completely clear. It doens't come to a complete stop, it acts more like a brake check, as it releases the brakes when the car in front is no longer in view. But it sure does induces road rage in the people behind me. Altho, this only happens if I have the drivers assist active... If I don't, it doesn't do this in this case.
2. There is a curve near my daughter's school. Right at the apex of the curve, there is a light post... If I'm in the right lane, my car will slam on the brakes 99% of the time if I approach that curve > 35mph (45mph speed limit)... So to compensate, I always have to make sure I'm in the left lane, when coming up that road. Phantom braking occurs in this situation for me, regardless if I have the drivers assists on or off, probably because the computer thinks an accident is imminent, as many times during this scenario, it also tightens the shoulder belts.

Note: The above is not for a Tesla, as I'm still waiting for a VIN... I will be sure to drive down that road when I drop off my daughter after taking delivery of my Y.

I get crazy phantom braking when on a hilly road with overpass over a low point. As the car comes over the hill down towards the overpass, the radar ”sees” an obstruction and brakes hard. It happens reproducibly on a road I often travel, so I override at those points. Cameras plus AI should be much better, IMHO.

 

[Netmaster22]

Question, I took delivery of my MYLR on 6/1/21, it has a build date of 04/21/21.
I had read somewhere that they stopped equipping the radar on vehicle build after 4/27/21.
I do have the speed restrictions and auto headlight requirement for Autopilot, which made me think I physically do not have the radar.

Could it be possible my vehicle has the radar hardware but it is disabled because of my delivery date? Is there a way for me to physically look for it?

 

[DanDi58]

Question, I took delivery of my MYLR on 6/1/21, it has a build date of 04/21/21.
I had read somewhere that they stopped equipping the radar on vehicle build after 4/27/21.
I do have the speed restrictions and auto headlight requirement for Autopilot, which made me think I physically do not have the radar.

Could it be possible my vehicle has the radar hardware but it is disabled because of my delivery date? Is there a way for me to physically look for it?

Interesting, what software version is the car on?

 

[Netmaster22]

Interesting, what software version is the car on?

It's 2021.4.18.2

 

[DanDi58]

It's 2021.4.18.2

That's the latest version so perhaps it has already eliminated the radar from the equation. I would assume so since there aren't any restrictions when the radar is active. I guess there's a way to see if it's still physically present but not sure anyone has done that yet.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Question, I took delivery of my MYLR on 6/1/21, it has a build date of 04/21/21.
I had read somewhere that they stopped equipping the radar on vehicle build after 4/27/21.
I do have the speed restrictions and auto headlight requirement for Autopilot, which made me think I physically do not have the radar.

Could it be possible my vehicle has the radar hardware but it is disabled because of my delivery date? Is there a way for me to physically look for it?

Yes, you can look behind the frunk button to see if the radar connector is connected.
Master Thread: New Tesla Vision system for Model 3/Y

At 3:10 in this video it shows how to remove that panel to check. But be careful as you car might be a bit different.

 

[YieldFarmer]

Yes, you can look behind the frunk button to see if the radar connector is connected.
Master Thread: New Tesla Vision system for Model 3/Y

At 3:10 in this video it shows how to remove that panel to check. But be careful as you car might be a bit different.

If anyone does this please report back if the wiring harness for Radar is in the Vision-only cars. I am interested in this information

 

[BitJam]

First it was chrome delete. Now it's radar delete. When will this madness end?

 

[DayTrippin]

When they only have wheels left to take... Or they will provide everyone with a LONGgggg extension cord as who needs batteries. They are too expensive anyway and use materials that could better be used to mine bitcoin...

 

[stirfryguy]

What would be the point if the wiring harness was there if the software itself disables the radar?

If anyone does this please report back if the wiring harness for Radar is in the Vision-only cars. I am interested in this information

Not sure if this is what you're looking for but LMK. 203xxx vin.