Radar getting turned off on Model 3/Y with 2022.20.9

[Tha_Ape]

Tesla transitioning its first radar vehicles to 'Tesla Vision'

Tesla appears to be transitioning its first radar-equipped vehicles to Tesla Vision

www.notateslaapp.com

Not sure how I feel about this. Don't like my car getting nerfed with lower AP speeds and greater following distance.

 

[Rice&Curry]

Does the Release note mention anything specific about the radar being switched off?

 

[Tha_Ape]

Does the Release note mention anything specific about the radar being switched off?

Yes, I haven't gotten the update, apparently it's being slowly rolled out.

 

[jcanoe]

It's like being Batman and then being told that you are now just the Green Hornet.

 

[Daekwan]

This sucks.

One of the reasons I've held onto my Feb 2021 built Y is because of radar. After almost two years and 24K miles, I have no problems with random phantom braking & love setting the following distance to 1.. as it keeps those aggressive DC commuters from jumping in front of me every 2 minutes.

 

[iamnid]

Weird. There's a newer version of the software 2022.24.5 that's rolling out that doesn't have this described change.

 

[alexcue]

I think that's BS personally, the vision doesn't work well for me because of trucks, god knows how many times during a lane change, the car has swerved back into my lane because it has these dancing trucks as it moves through the side camera's and sensors. I hate it.

 

[kavyboy]

Sounds like the "Maybe OTA updates aren't so great" camp may get a few more campers. It just gets worse as your car obsoletes out of the "shiny and new" stuff that Tesla decides is now more interesting and your changes become, at best, pointless.

 

[nate704]

Vision only MYP here. No phantom braking no sudden slow downs at all.
Also, FSD sucks with or without radar anyway.

 

[new-Instance]

Vision only MYP here. No phantom braking no sudden slow downs at all.
Also, FSD sucks with or without radar anyway.

Those of us with radar can use autopilot at night without auto high beams! I think that's a benefit since the auto high beams don't work well! It's not fun driving down the highway with them going on and off...lol!

 

[astrobill]

Does the Release note mention anything specific about the radar being switched off?

It's not clear to me from the screenshot or the article if they're really "turning off" radar even with this update. Note that this was spotted, I'm told, in a newer Model S, so it's not clear the update will have the same effect in all vehicles, including radar-equipped ones.

The wording in that screenshotted release note is "...certain autopilot and active safety features..." will use "Tesla Vision". That leaves open the possibility that radar may still be used for certain functions in vehicles that have it, such as automatic emergency braking (AEB), as an additional input. It's not entirely clear to me. Maybe they'll stop using it as a distance measurement in non-emergency situations? Dunno' yet.

Not sure how I feel about this. Don't like my car getting nerfed with lower AP speeds and greater following distance.

This sucks.

One of the reasons I've held onto my Feb 2021 built Y is because of radar. After almost two years and 24K miles, I have no problems with random phantom braking & love setting the following distance to 1.. as it keeps those aggressive DC commuters from jumping in front of me every 2 minutes.

I agree with both these sentiments (I'm also in DC area, by the way).

I have radar in my Model Y and was shocked when Tesla took out radar from new vehicles.

It never made sense to remove the radar, which Tesla almost certainly did for pandemic supply chain and cost reasons, regardless of what Musk claimed. Ever since then, they've been scrambling to get "vision only" to work well enough that it's sort of okay. However, it will never be as good as vision + radar + LIDAR, especially at night, and there's a TON of industry research on this.

But again, it's not entirely clear which vehicles that release note will apply to, or if it means they'll stop using radar in radar-equipped vehicles. We'll know more soon, I suspect.

 

[apacheguy]

This makes no sense. For vehicles that have radar, why disable it? This just makes the car less safe. I don’t have or use AP but I’ve always felt some comfort knowing that radar can see through fog if I suddenly get caught in a fog bank. No way Tesla Vision is going to save anyone in that situation.

 

[astrobill]

This makes no sense. For vehicles that have radar, why disable it? This just makes the car less safe. I don’t have or use AP but I’ve always felt some comfort knowing that radar can see through fog if I suddenly get caught in a fog bank. No way Tesla Vision is going to save anyone in that situation.

Yep. You're correct.

There's a lot of research about how "vision only" systems perform at night, in different kinds of weather, etc. It's just not as good...and in some situations, quite a bit worse. For example, at night in the presence of pedestrians, vision-only systems do reaaaaallly poorly.

Edward Niedermeyer knows a lot of the researchers and tweets good links to peer-reviewed research articles and study results about this from time to time.

 

[MP3Mike]

For vehicles that have radar, why disable it?

Because they are no longer maintaining the code that uses radar. So if you want updated functionality you will have to use the Tesla Vision version. Tesla has said that in general it is better. Obviously it still lags in speed and follow distance functionality.

 

[astrobill]

Because they are no longer maintaining the code that uses radar. So if you want updated functionality you will have to use the Tesla Vision version. Tesla has said that in general it is better. Obviously it still lags in speed and follow distance functionality.

It has not been established that Tesla is "no longer maintaining the code that uses radar" so I'd be careful about assuming that.

We know that radar-equipped Teslas have still been using radar, even in "Tesla Vision" versions of software, for things like automatic emergency braking (AEB) and forward collision warning (FCW). This may be true even in FSD vehicles that have radar units.

In non-FSD vehicles with radar, it is still used (before v2022.20.9) used as a distance measurement for adaptive cruise control on Autopilot.

It's not entirely clear from that release note which of these is changing. The fact that the minimum stationkeeping distance in cruise control is apparently changing from "1" to "2" time units -- at least in the specific vehicle model this was spotted in, a "refresh" Model S, I'm told -- implies they may be removing the use of radar as a direct distance measurement, but even that's not clear.

It's also not clear they're also going to stop using it for AEB and FCW. Again, the wording in the release note says "certain" features will use Tesla Vision. It doesn't even say "exclusively" use Tesla Vision, so who really knows WHAT they're doing based on this note?

Are you aware of someone authoritatively stating the radar-related portions of Tesla's firmware and software haven't been maintained or are no longer going to be maintained?

 

[astrobill]

By the way, on another note, someone on here just pointed out to me it's not at all clear what's going on yet...to quote him:

"...This is still not clear what's going on. the sighting is from a refresh model S. Those cars were made without radar since early 2022, so could just be one of those cars I guess?"

And even the author of that post on notateslaapp states:

"It's not clear yet whether all vehicles with radar will transition to Tesla Vision with this update..."

With some luck, maybe the apparent new use of Tesla Vision to provide "certain" safety features not explained in that release note -- will still only apply to certain non-radar-equipped models?

Tesla is deliberately vague on a lot of this stuff these days. On the one hand, they want to make it sound like a camera-only "Tesla Vision" is great, no other sensors needed. On the other hand, they don't want to get sued in a case where an owner with a radar-equipped vehicle shows that the radar could've prevented something that camera-only doesn't.

The idea that Tesla was just *discard* available radar measurements in vehicles with radar never made sense to me as an aerospace guy with some experience in this topic. We should know more as this rolls out to more vehicles.

 

[MY-Y]

I have a 2020 MY with radar. The FSD beta disabled my radar many months ago. I had the same concerns expressed in this thread, and completely understand the feelings here.

The good news is that the lack of radar wasn't nearly as big of an issue than I imagined.

The good news:
1. I thought the vision system would struggle when the sun was directly in front (my eyes sure do), but it seems to "see" in that situation just fine. This is also true driving at night with blaring oncoming lights.
2. I expected more phantom braking. Nope, it happens on rare occasions, just like with radar.
3. It initially limited TACC to 75, but I think it's back to 85.
4. I don't think it requires auto high beams, but will have to double check this later.

The bad news:
1. It does require auto wipers. This is annoying when you wash your windshield and it takes multiple wipes for it to decide it is not raining. The windshield gets less clean during those extra wipes.
2. Maybe this was there before, but it is annoying... When engaging autopilot, it automatically sets the auto headlights AND it automatically sets the interior light level to auto 24%. I like them dimmer, but it changes my settings every time.

 

[Hamtaro7]

Weird. There's a newer version of the software 2022.24.5 that's rolling out that doesn't have this described change.

hey thats a nice golden doodle how much does he weigh

 

[astrobill]

I have a 2020 MY with radar. The FSD beta disabled my radar many months ago. I had the same concerns expressed in this thread, and completely understand the feelings here.

There's some evidence even FSD doesn't totally disable radar and still uses it (when present in the vehicle) for automatic emergency braking and forward collision warning, at least when FSD isn't active. It may even still be quietly using it when FSD *is* active.

And it's still possible Tesla will continue to use the radar as an input in some circumstances when it's available in all vehicles, even FSD ones. They try to tiptoe around this because they won't to to highlight that it's still a useful input as they sell their "vision-only" solution. I am solidly in the camp of those who feel ditching radar in new vehicles was a cost-cutting measure.

 

[phonetele226]

I am starting to think that OTA updates are not the greatest thing. It can be used by Tesla to obsolete your car quicker. They should not be allowed to remove functionality that you paid for.