Papafox
Active Member
- Jan 12, 2013
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Consider locations like China where the infrastructure for charging at one's apartment house is not yet available. Tesla really doesn't want to be in the business of providing electricity for everyday driving. It prefers to develop a long-distance supercharger network for cross-country driving. If third parties provided the electricity via superchargers in big cities (at a fee), then Tesla could shed this potential liability.
On the other hand, if other EVs could use Tesla-compatible superchargers, then Tesla could sell electricity to other EV types from its superchargers, turning them into profit centers. I would welcome the proliferation of third-party super-charger stations. Let the EV revolution begin!
On the other hand, if other EVs could use Tesla-compatible superchargers, then Tesla could sell electricity to other EV types from its superchargers, turning them into profit centers. I would welcome the proliferation of third-party super-charger stations. Let the EV revolution begin!
mershaw2001
I'm short the short sellers
If third parties make superchargers and then charge tesla owners for them, how would this make Tesla owners feel about the 2000 dollars that they paid upfront to have a free supercharger network? I would be quite annoyed to find out that tesla had charged me money for free supercharging and then had decided to stop expanding the supercharging network in favor of someone else making a system where I would have to pay.
Tesla does charge a fee upfront for the supercharger access, right?
So, just use the Tesla provided chargers and ignore those that have a fee. You only lose the convinence of having choices.
I would think they should be fine with it. Tesla plans to continue and expand their network. These would be additional stations installed by third parties as you said. If Tesla stopped building their network out at the end of the year and it took another company a year or two and they charged for those then yes, that wouldn't be right. I don't think Tesla has indicated this is the plan.
You are jumping tall buildings in order to reach conclusions:tongue:
First, we know almost nothing about specifics. Even so, it has already been reported that one of the requirements will be that any supercharger will use the upfront/free charging business model.
Tesla charges $2000 up front for the SC access for the 60kWh and it is included with the base price of the 85kWh pack.
Papafox
Active Member
- Jan 12, 2013
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As a Model S owner I would welcome the proliferation of third-party charging stations because it broadens my availability of quick-charging locations. Tesla's network of free supercharging stations would still be available, but I would have additional options, which is good. If Tesla sold electricity to other EVs, there would be additional incentive for Tesla to expand its network. It's a win/win.
The important thing is to get Tesla-style supercharger becoming the standard for EV recharging. Now is the time to make that stand before the other car manufacturers commit to a technology that is not compatible with Teslas and Teslas would therefore become the betamax in the EV charging world. Let Tesla set the standards. In particular, consider China, Paris, and big cities without existing quick-charge over overnight apartment charging infrastructure. The adoption of EVs in these locations would be sped up immensely by third-party superchargers. The $2000 fee for a supercharger will cover sporadic long-distance driving for the life of the car, but it won't cover regular supercharging in big cities. This is where we need third-party supercharger providers.
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I see that Elon did indeed say that superchargering offered by other manufacturers should be in line with the pay upfront model that Tesla uses. Would such a model prevent third-party providers from offering supercharging, however? I see the need for infrastructure within big cities that makes sense for Tesla and for EV owners, and I don't see pay upfront as being the right solution in big cities. Third-party providers would be a more workable solution.
The news on opening the supercharger network to other manufacturers in the future even made it to the German media. Found a well-informed and positive article at sueddeutsche.de: Tesla teilt sein Stromtankstellen-Patent - Auto ddeutsche.de ("Tesla wants to share charging station patent")
Robert.Boston
Model S VIN P01536
I thought that this was the case, too, until Elon's recent comments in London directly contradicted that POV. He talked in some detail about the need to build SCs within cities like London, Shanghai, and New York to support a substantial potential customer base who must park on the streets.
ecarfan
Well-Known Member
Yes Elon has said at least twice now that Tesla will build Superchargers within large urban areas; in Chinese cities (already started) as well as London (first one done) and has specifically mentioned San Francisco and New York as other possibilities.
This is a change from Tesla's original Supercharger plan, but Elon is nothing if not realistic and flexible in responding to challenges.
This is a change from Tesla's original Supercharger plan, but Elon is nothing if not realistic and flexible in responding to challenges.
jhm
Well-Known Member
So the word from London seems to be that Musk wants to share Supercharger IP with other EV makers so long as they play by the same rules, specifically that the contribute to the building and maintenance of Superchargers and do not charge a fee per use. This does not feel like a true open source kind of arrangement, especially as it requires payment be made to Tesla. Yet it expresses a willingness to partner. Moreover, it may weed out potential participants who are only interested in short-term compliance cars. That is, if you were only interested in compliance cars to be destroyed at the end of a lease, you might not be so willing to obligate yourself to a long-term investment with ongoing maintenance in Tesla's infrasructure. Instead, you would like short-term arrangement that does not outlive your leases. So Musk seems to be saying, if you're committed to building out a lasting infrastructure, we're ready to partner with you.
Along these lines, I wonder if Tesla will also hold out for greater commitment from any maker that wants to use Tesla drivetrains. That might include that clients must support the Supercharger infrastructure and at least offer Supercharger access as an option to their customers. Also the clients car needs to be a truly compelling vehicle and not marketed as merely a compliance car. I think it does little good for Tesla's brand when clients offer half-hearted compliance cars like the RAV4. Cars with Tesla on the inside should be just as compelling and practical as the cars Tesla makes. I think Tesla is at a place where it can be choosy. Hold out for true EV commitment. The rest is just a waste of time.
Along these lines, I wonder if Tesla will also hold out for greater commitment from any maker that wants to use Tesla drivetrains. That might include that clients must support the Supercharger infrastructure and at least offer Supercharger access as an option to their customers. Also the clients car needs to be a truly compelling vehicle and not marketed as merely a compliance car. I think it does little good for Tesla's brand when clients offer half-hearted compliance cars like the RAV4. Cars with Tesla on the inside should be just as compelling and practical as the cars Tesla makes. I think Tesla is at a place where it can be choosy. Hold out for true EV commitment. The rest is just a waste of time.
Todd Burch
Voltage makes me tingle.
jhm
Well-Known Member
Thanks. From the article:
"All electric car manufacturers will benefit if a universal charging standard is adopted."
Where did the author get that stupid idea? Nobody knows how to charge at 1.21 jiggawatts yet so it would be premature to adopt any universal charging standard that would stand in the way of ultrafast charging. Sharing Supercharger technology is not about setting a universal standard. It is about allowing the industry to catch up with the leader. The idea is to keep pushing the technological limits until charging a car is 1000 times faster than filling one with gas, hydrogen or anything else.
PS. 1.21 GW charging could give you a range of 1000 miles in under 1 second. It will happen in the future according to one Hollywood movie, or was it in the past?
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I still get the feeling the media (and others) are jumping the gun and reading more into those comments than was really intended. The article has an update on it:
Jackl1956
Active Member
Musk Plans Tesla Patent Move After Hint of Sharing With Rivals - Bloomberg
Wonder what the folks at "New Fisker" will say?
Mario Kadastik
Active Member
I'm wondering it's not posted here yet. Elon tweeted this last night:
Twitter / elonmusk: Some news about Tesla patents ...
So about 30 minutes after market open we'll know.
Twitter / elonmusk: Some news about Tesla patents ...
So about 30 minutes after market open we'll know.
Chickenlittle
Banned
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