random chitchat

[sandpiper]

I still stubbornly stick to US units (Imperial are not really supported in cars any longer). The Tesla is pretty good about letting you select formats individually for time, distance and temperature. Most cars are just an all-or-nothing switch between US/Metric.

Do EU countries use Bar for pressure? Here in Canada, kPa seems to be the standard SI (metric) unit for tire pressure. But yes, I prefer PSI.

Yes... to select pressure in PSI would be nice. Canada is a bit of a messed up country, caught between the US and the rest of the metric world. My kids learn metric at school, yet they only know their weight in lbs, height in ft-ins. And while I generally mostly work in metric, I still think of pressure strictly in PSI.

It would be nice if the US decided to give up on imperial and finally join the rest of the world!

 

[mknox]

YIt would be nice if the US decided to give up on imperial and finally join the rest of the world!

I agree. But when Canada converted, the US was supposed to as well. US citizens complained, and the US backed down. Canadian citizens also complained, but we typically have "big brother knows best" governments, so they just rammed it through anyway. There are lots of good reasons why when our biggest trading partner didn't convert, Canada shouldn't have converted either, but that's a conversation for a different day.

I'm intrigued that different SI countries would use different units (i.e. kPa vs. Bar)

 

[ohmman]

It would be nice if the US decided to give up on imperial and finally join the rest of the world!

Absolutely. Sorry to remain OT for a second here, but when I graduated college and took my EIT/FE exam, they offered it in metric or imperial units. This is an all-day timed exam. I obviously took the metric, because conversions are so much simpler, but at least half the class elected to take the imperial unit version. It was mind boggling. Of course, these were the days when the only thing you could bring with you was a RPN HP calculator.

 

[beeeerock]

Of course, these were the days when the only thing you could bring with you was a RPN HP calculator.

Heh... I bought my HP 15C in '83 for what seemed like a crazy amount of money. It's still on my desk and gets used virtually every day. Using a calculator that *isn't* RPN requires careful attention to the process! If Tesla can make cars to last the way HP built their calculators, we're in very good shape.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree. But when Canada converted, the US was supposed to as well. US citizens complained, and the US backed down. Canadian citizens also complained, but we typically have "big brother knows best" governments, so they just rammed it through anyway. There are lots of good reasons why when our biggest trading partner didn't convert, Canada shouldn't have converted either, but that's a conversation for a different day.

I'm intrigued that different SI countries would use different units (i.e. kPa vs. Bar)

I recall the change in elementary school and it seemed fine at the time. But I'm still thinking in terms of both. And we're stuck to do home improvements in feet and inches because the architects and building trades never did make the jump. The fact that a 2x4 is actually 1-5/8x3-5/8 finished (the only kind we ever use) is another story. We should have just finished the pain completely. And the US should have done so too. As Ohmman noted, they're perhaps even more messed up since some professions do use SI and have to work more interchangeably than we do. SI is everywhere and resistance should be futile.

kPa and Bar are really the same units in reality, just a few factors of 10 apart. If they added another significant figure, I'd be OK with Bars, but still prefer kPa (or just psi and be done with it).

 

[JohnQ]

But think of all the wonderful conversions I get to do in my head, particularly while driving through Ontario. 2.2 lb/kg and .62 km/mi and 2.24 cm/in. It's a mental workout ... except C to F. That's a PIA.

 

[Cyberax]

I'm intrigued that different SI countries would use different units (i.e. kPa vs. Bar)

1 Bar is just 100kPa - the mean atmospheric pressure at sea level is 101kPa, so 1 Bar is roughly 1 atmosphere.

 

[mikeash]

But think of all the wonderful conversions I get to do in my head, particularly while driving through Ontario. 2.2 lb/kg and .62 km/mi and 2.24 cm/in. It's a mental workout ... except C to F. That's a PIA.

C to F is easy: multiply by two, add 30. F to C is subtract 30, divide by two. It's close enough for most practical purposes within normal temperature ranges.

 

[Cottonwood]

C to F is easy: multiply by two, add 30. F to C is subtract 30, divide by two. It's close enough for most practical purposes within normal temperature ranges.

And for those who are a little more obsessive:

• C to F — Multiply by 2, subtract 10%, add 32
• F to C — Subtract 32, divide by 2, add 11% (or 1/9)

 

[jgs]

We should have just finished the pain completely. And the US should have done so too. As Ohmman noted, they're perhaps even more messed up since some professions do use SI and have to work more interchangeably than we do.

Possibly the crowning example of this is when we (the US, that is) augered a $125M [*] orbiter into the surface of Mars because of an Imperial/SI screwup. http://www.wired.com/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-report/


[*] Not even counting the opportunity cost of all the science that didn't happen as a result.

Edit: Come to think of it, this little anecdote is also the rejoinder to people who think all space exploration should be done by robots. I'm pretty sure Matt Damon wouldn't have blindly smashed his spaceship into the planet just because some lookup table told him to. ;-)

 

[beeeerock]

Possibly the crowning example of this is when we (the US, that is) augered a $125M
[*] orbiter into the surface of Mars because of an Imperial/SI screwup. http://www.wired.com/2010/11/1110mars-climate-observer-report/
[*] Not even counting the opportunity cost of all the science that didn't happen as a result.

I had not heard about that incident, for whatever reason! But I'm not even slightly surprised. There's enough going on in the world of engineering that can leave little to chance. Messing around with dinosaur units is just asking for trouble... none of the conversions are even close to logical. I stick to metric whenever I can and cringe when forced to devolve and work in the old stuff!

 

[ggr]

The Gimli Glider incident was also a units screwup.

 

[Freudianly]

True delta does not have a statistical sample. I reported my last 2 cars there, but the guy got under my skin nagging me for quarterly updates. Also keep in mind that, since whole fleet under warranty and tesla service so accommodating, people tend to have more service visits than they would in hostile dealer environment where they are getting nickel and dimed.

Bayes would tell you that since CR and TrueDelta stats go in the same direction over time, the validity of both their databases is mutually reinforced.
Anyway, as I said elsewhere, Elon has the best stats and he will not reveal them. But he is not an anomaly: capitalism is more secretive than ever. It has never been so hard to know what you really buy, since corporations easily convince corrupt politicians it would be suicidal for them to reveal all their "trade secrets". It is understandable since capitalism is in reality economic war, and in a war it is crucial to avoid letting your enemy know what you are really up to. Meanwhile, customers do not have the right to perfect information in the market and Adam Smith is a fraud. The reality of capitalism from the point of view of the customer is that there is no duty to clearly, fully and honestly inform customers before they hand their credit card if what they buy is crappy, or worse: carcinogenic.
Trade secret - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Elon's defense so far is quite weak: he does not offer his own stats, just a couple of tweets, revealing he only cares about one thing: 98% of Model S owners would buy it again. It is not a stupid defense. But it is not a transparent one.
Tesla owners who really care about the truth could set up a website dedicated to stats about the Model S. It could prove useful to negotiate a free warranty extension if the reliability is really that poor.

 

[wdolson]

Bayes would tell you that since CR and TrueDelta stats go in the same direction over time, the validity of both their databases is mutually reinforced.
Anyway, as I said elsewhere, Elon has the best stats and he will not reveal them. But he is not an anomaly: capitalism is more secretive than ever. It has never been so hard to know what you really buy, since corporations easily convince corrupt politicians it would be suicidal for them to reveal all their "trade secrets". It is understandable since capitalism is in reality economic war, and in a war it is crucial to avoid letting your enemy know what you are really up to. Meanwhile, customers do not have the right to perfect information in the market and Adam Smith is a fraud. The reality of capitalism from the point of view of the customer is that there is no duty to clearly, fully and honestly inform customers before they hand their credit card if what they buy is crappy, or worse: carcinogenic.
Trade secret - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Elon's defense so far is quite weak: he does not offer his own stats, just a couple of tweets, revealing he only cares about one thing: 98% of Model S owners would buy it again. It is not a stupid defense. But it is not a transparent one.
Tesla owners who really care about the truth could set up a website dedicated to stats about the Model S. It could prove useful to negotiate a free warranty extension if the reliability is really that poor.

There have been many evils done by corporations, but saying corporations are bad is like saying hammers are bad because some people have been killed with them. A corporation is a tool that spreads risk on large endeavors that can't be done by smaller organizations. Capitalist companies are run by human beings which run the range from sociopaths just out to screw everyone for their own benefit to people who are truly trying to improve the world. I'm far from one of those people who think Elon Musk is perfect, he's a very flawed human being, but I am convinced he really does want to leave the world a better place than he found it and he's doing all he can to make that happen.

As they say, if both extremes are mad at you, you're probably on the right path. A lot of people here scream bloody murder over various things, and people on the other side in the car and oil business hate him with a passion, so maybe he is on the right path?

Tesla exists under a microscope. The world focuses intently on the company and ever little thing it does or any news about what someone did with one of their cars causes a media storm. They are a bit secretive, but I think it's in self defense. Elon Musk is already pummeled with questions about what he's said, what his companies have done, and what people have done with his products. If every tidbit of information was out there, the poor man would never get any work done. Just look at what happens to every rumor and tidbit of information here.

I also think Adam Smith is usually misunderstood. I can't remember who it was I read about it, but someone went back and really read the Wealth of Nations and realized that Adam Smith was not an advocate for unchecked capitalism as most people believed. He actually made the point that unchecked capitalism would result in perpetual boom and bust cycles because people tend to charge from one extreme to another. I don't believe the Wealth of Nations is all that easy a read, it's very long and written in flowery 18th century prose, so a lot of people have read into it what they want to read into it.

As an engineer who's worked in R&D for almost 30 years, I'm surprised Teslas are as reliable as they are. Most complex machines with this much new technology have far more teething pains. The car has only been in production 3 years and many new features have been added along the way. A number in the last three months. If you want a reliable car, but a Camry. It will probably be 10 years before Tesla is competing with Toyota for quality. However, from what I've seen thus far, they will probably be near or at the top of the heap in quality eventually.

 

[Freudianly]

There have been many evils done by corporations, but saying corporations are bad is like saying hammers are bad because some people have been killed with them. A corporation is a tool that spreads risk on large endeavors that can't be done by smaller organizations. Capitalist companies are run by human beings which run the range from sociopaths just out to screw everyone for their own benefit to people who are truly trying to improve the world. I'm far from one of those people who think Elon Musk is perfect, he's a very flawed human being, but I am convinced he really does want to leave the world a better place than he found it and he's doing all he can to make that happen.

As they say, if both extremes are mad at you, you're probably on the right path. A lot of people here scream bloody murder over various things, and people on the other side in the car and oil business hate him with a passion, so maybe he is on the right path?

Tesla exists under a microscope. The world focuses intently on the company and ever little thing it does or any news about what someone did with one of their cars causes a media storm. They are a bit secretive, but I think it's in self defense. Elon Musk is already pummeled with questions about what he's said, what his companies have done, and what people have done with his products. If every tidbit of information was out there, the poor man would never get any work done. Just look at what happens to every rumor and tidbit of information here.

I also think Adam Smith is usually misunderstood. I can't remember who it was I read about it, but someone went back and really read the Wealth of Nations and realized that Adam Smith was not an advocate for unchecked capitalism as most people believed. He actually made the point that unchecked capitalism would result in perpetual boom and bust cycles because people tend to charge from one extreme to another. I don't believe the Wealth of Nations is all that easy a read, it's very long and written in flowery 18th century prose, so a lot of people have read into it what they want to read into it.

As an engineer who's worked in R&D for almost 30 years, I'm surprised Teslas are as reliable as they are. Most complex machines with this much new technology have far more teething pains. The car has only been in production 3 years and many new features have been added along the way. A number in the last three months. If you want a reliable car, but a Camry. It will probably be 10 years before Tesla is competing with Toyota for quality. However, from what I've seen thus far, they will probably be near or at the top of the heap in quality eventually.

I recommend you watch this documentary:

It explains well why the rules in place force people at the top of corporations to behave like sociopaths.

I agree that Elon Musk is trying to make society better. And the Model S's poor reliability was partly caused by the refusal of high quality part makers to sign contracts with Tesla. But since Elon does not always spill the beans, we may also speculate that the drive train woes are the consequence of a too extreme design decision: the motor is much smaller than the industry standard for so much power. And was it wise to use those sophisticated door handles ?

You are right, Adam Smith was not a fraud; he even attacked corporations like the East Indian Company, denouncing their insane practices to ensure the perpetuation of their monopolies. I used his name metaphorically instead of saying "economics as a science". On the whole, it can be said that economists are a fraud because they are courtiers instead of independent thinkers. And it is no wonder that the fake Nobel prize they are awarded is decided by a committee of bankers; a profession allowed to lend more money than it owns, and to exert a huge, undemocratic and toxic influence on society.

 

[RobStark]

I recommend you watch this documentary:

I recommend getting in touch with reality.

 

[Freudianly]

I recommend getting in touch with reality.

Corporations are not in touch with reality. They are in touch with accountancy, the filter through which they see reality.

 

[AuKirk]

Got notification of 7.1 update last night

I am starting to question my Saturday morning alertness, but I had an alert on my iPhone this morning saying Tesla software update 7.1 was ready to install. Since I knew I had to leave the house in a bit and wanted to check what is in the update, I chose to install it later. It then gave me a notice about scheduling the update overnight tonight, which I declined since I thought I could install it manually a bit later this morning. However, now there is no notice of the update in the car and I see no discussion of the update on this forum. Was I imagining things?

UPDATE - I am fairly certain I was wrong about that notification... as I have nothing on the 17" and clearly no one else has gotten this notice. I only had it on my iPhone, which doesn't make a lot of sense. My Saturday morning haze must be stronger than I thought.

 

[Discoducky]

Do you see a little clock icon at the top of the 17" to the right of the "T"? Press that to bring up the scheduling update page. Also, the update might not be 7.1 and you won't know until it finishes installing what version it is. And even then it might not be 7.1 as the version doesn't really correlate. You might have a setting for curve speed adaptation and that would be Elon's AP 1.01 or you may have new UI and that would be considered 7.1 possibly.

 

[Philinator]

I guess you mean 7.0. You cannot see the message on your iphone which version it is.
on your screen there is an icon next to the bluetooth and 3g logo. There is little "clock". If you push that it opens your software update tool.
hope this helps

 

[AuKirk]

Delete thread...

I have come to the conclusion that I must have been imaging things... most likely the notice was for the iPhone iOS update to 9.1. I could have sworn it said Tesla and 7.1 (hence this thread)... however, clearly I was wrong and there is a notification in phone settings that iOS 9.1 update is ready to install. I don't even know that the Tesla iPhone notification of an update would give the option to schedule the update... so that should have been my first clue that it was an iOS update and not a Tesla update.

Clearly I need to let myself sleep later on Saturday mornings...

ADMINS - can you delete this thread, as I think it is going to cause unnecessary confusion among others.